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	Comments on: PINKWASHING SOUTH AFRICA	</title>
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		<title>
		By: manny		</title>
		<link>https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16250</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[manny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mambaonline.com/?p=14006#comment-16250</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16199&quot;&gt;User?&lt;/a&gt;.

I understand your comments and agree to a point - but how do we tell this to lesbians who gets raped and killed in townships? the very idea of a &quot;township&quot; comes from our apartheid past - where the privileged thought it ok for humans to live like this - today it is very difficult to undo. how do we tell these young children and young adult to move on - apartheid is over when they (them or their parents) still serve as domestics in white homes. I think you not looking at it holistically. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It also does seem that to be gay means that one needs to be white, dress like it, act like - its a situation of conformity. We as white gay males dont ever share the platform - its our way or no way. We want the parades on our doorstep. if someone hurts a white gay - we run to the media create a hype because its a crime in our backyard, how can we have this?? We call on every gay person (white, balck, coloured) to do something about it. But let us highlight causes in townships - a problem inherited by our dark past - oh well - they live like that - why cant they just change and become more like us.. those savages.. I hear that, almost monthly! It is that shocking yes! &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Call it a pity party, but our behavior must change, and we must become more accepting of the majority race and its culture (crime is not a culture - its is a socioeconomic problem, mostly to blame to our unfair and unjust past) of which we are settlers. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It is precisely the attitude of yours - one reads similar on the News24 comments section that denies equality to all but creates a second apartheid system that hides behind the elitist class system. I cannot sit by and simply call it a pity party when majority of South Africans still live in conditions created by our apartheid system while my white family and friends find comfort in clutching onto the days of apartheid by creating a new system where only they benefit.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16199">User?</a>.</p>
<p>I understand your comments and agree to a point &#8211; but how do we tell this to lesbians who gets raped and killed in townships? the very idea of a &#8220;township&#8221; comes from our apartheid past &#8211; where the privileged thought it ok for humans to live like this &#8211; today it is very difficult to undo. how do we tell these young children and young adult to move on &#8211; apartheid is over when they (them or their parents) still serve as domestics in white homes. I think you not looking at it holistically. </p>
<p>It also does seem that to be gay means that one needs to be white, dress like it, act like &#8211; its a situation of conformity. We as white gay males dont ever share the platform &#8211; its our way or no way. We want the parades on our doorstep. if someone hurts a white gay &#8211; we run to the media create a hype because its a crime in our backyard, how can we have this?? We call on every gay person (white, balck, coloured) to do something about it. But let us highlight causes in townships &#8211; a problem inherited by our dark past &#8211; oh well &#8211; they live like that &#8211; why cant they just change and become more like us.. those savages.. I hear that, almost monthly! It is that shocking yes! </p>
<p>Call it a pity party, but our behavior must change, and we must become more accepting of the majority race and its culture (crime is not a culture &#8211; its is a socioeconomic problem, mostly to blame to our unfair and unjust past) of which we are settlers. </p>
<p>It is precisely the attitude of yours &#8211; one reads similar on the News24 comments section that denies equality to all but creates a second apartheid system that hides behind the elitist class system. I cannot sit by and simply call it a pity party when majority of South Africans still live in conditions created by our apartheid system while my white family and friends find comfort in clutching onto the days of apartheid by creating a new system where only they benefit.</p>
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		By: toks		</title>
		<link>https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16144</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[toks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mambaonline.com/?p=14006#comment-16144</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16014&quot;&gt;Tourist in S Africa&lt;/a&gt;.

worst destination on earth ... um, no. but i&#039;m guessing you&#039;re white and sloppy about being gay as well. [can&#039;t understand why people want to be sloppy, but that&#039;s another story.]&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;but i&#039;ve lived throughout the continent, as a fairly openly gay man __ my neighbours knew, at the very least __ and i had *zero* problems. imagine.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16014">Tourist in S Africa</a>.</p>
<p>worst destination on earth &#8230; um, no. but i&#8217;m guessing you&#8217;re white and sloppy about being gay as well. [can&#8217;t understand why people want to be sloppy, but that&#8217;s another story.]</p>
<p>but i&#8217;ve lived throughout the continent, as a fairly openly gay man __ my neighbours knew, at the very least __ and i had *zero* problems. imagine.</p>
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		By: Mannie		</title>
		<link>https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16092</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mannie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mambaonline.com/?p=14006#comment-16092</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16040&quot;&gt;User?&lt;/a&gt;.

Well &quot;User&quot; - Luke has valid points. Based on our stark history, i dont think we must be running around trying to compare other countries racism when we are trying to rectify and overcome our own. Lets focus closer to home, shall we?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Even if you never lived through the days of apartheid, you are certainly living with the outcome, whether you like it or not. 80% of South Africa`s past is trying to rectify the evils of the past. The wide and far reaching ramifications of it can be seen everywhere. people live in worse conditions than animals, and its not because of the current government. It will certainly take more than 18 years to rectify, let alone racial attitudes and stereotypes. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Clearly you favour a party who has no idea of what it is to be part of the revolution - Lindiwe knows very little and she gets every line form Helen Zille, I suggest you look at everything more objectively and start asking the question why black south africans do not identify with her or her party. Go read their manifesto and then we can talk again. The DP should never have kept a name that was created for two parties who jointly ran the Province. The DP in essence tricked coloured people to think that they are the new &quot;NNP&quot; who has their interest at heart.. hardly the case. If they kept the name &quot;DP&quot; - they would never have gathered these &quot;new found votes&quot;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Racism in South Africa must never be tolerated, no matter who it comes from. And we must not just walk away from it in the hope that it will go away. We must address it head on - and especially among elitist groups (rich white gay circles etc) that keep it alive, only then will we be part of that change, ask Lindiwe about it *wink*]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16040">User?</a>.</p>
<p>Well &#8220;User&#8221; &#8211; Luke has valid points. Based on our stark history, i dont think we must be running around trying to compare other countries racism when we are trying to rectify and overcome our own. Lets focus closer to home, shall we?</p>
<p>Even if you never lived through the days of apartheid, you are certainly living with the outcome, whether you like it or not. 80% of South Africa`s past is trying to rectify the evils of the past. The wide and far reaching ramifications of it can be seen everywhere. people live in worse conditions than animals, and its not because of the current government. It will certainly take more than 18 years to rectify, let alone racial attitudes and stereotypes. </p>
<p>Clearly you favour a party who has no idea of what it is to be part of the revolution &#8211; Lindiwe knows very little and she gets every line form Helen Zille, I suggest you look at everything more objectively and start asking the question why black south africans do not identify with her or her party. Go read their manifesto and then we can talk again. The DP should never have kept a name that was created for two parties who jointly ran the Province. The DP in essence tricked coloured people to think that they are the new &#8220;NNP&#8221; who has their interest at heart.. hardly the case. If they kept the name &#8220;DP&#8221; &#8211; they would never have gathered these &#8220;new found votes&#8221;.</p>
<p>Racism in South Africa must never be tolerated, no matter who it comes from. And we must not just walk away from it in the hope that it will go away. We must address it head on &#8211; and especially among elitist groups (rich white gay circles etc) that keep it alive, only then will we be part of that change, ask Lindiwe about it *wink*</p>
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		By: User?		</title>
		<link>https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16040</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[User?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mambaonline.com/?p=14006#comment-16040</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16035&quot;&gt;Luke&lt;/a&gt;.

The issue of racism affects everyone in the country. It&#039;s not a uniquely gay problem. However I&#039;m starting to feel that the &#039;victimhood glorification&#039; is an even bigger issue in the country (regardless of race). Everyone seems to dwell on being a victim. Everyone turns everything about race (BTW I&#039;m not white, just to get that out of the way). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Some of us did not live through apartheid. While we acknowledge the travesty, we would very much like to move on with our lives. I&#039;m sure Lindiwe Mazibuko would agree. For me and most people in my generation; the future is far more important than the past. Let&#039;s not put all our energy on one issue. I&#039;m more concerned with issues like the economy, security and health. I find the race card over exhausted by people who can&#039;t have a constructive debate on topics at hand. It&#039;s laziness of the mind at best. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If you find that certain people are racist. then by all means don&#039;t hang around them. If it&#039;s in a professional setting, the laws are there to deal with that. Racism will always exist just like inclusive people will always exist. You decide what you want to focus on.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16035">Luke</a>.</p>
<p>The issue of racism affects everyone in the country. It&#8217;s not a uniquely gay problem. However I&#8217;m starting to feel that the &#8216;victimhood glorification&#8217; is an even bigger issue in the country (regardless of race). Everyone seems to dwell on being a victim. Everyone turns everything about race (BTW I&#8217;m not white, just to get that out of the way). </p>
<p>Some of us did not live through apartheid. While we acknowledge the travesty, we would very much like to move on with our lives. I&#8217;m sure Lindiwe Mazibuko would agree. For me and most people in my generation; the future is far more important than the past. Let&#8217;s not put all our energy on one issue. I&#8217;m more concerned with issues like the economy, security and health. I find the race card over exhausted by people who can&#8217;t have a constructive debate on topics at hand. It&#8217;s laziness of the mind at best. </p>
<p>If you find that certain people are racist. then by all means don&#8217;t hang around them. If it&#8217;s in a professional setting, the laws are there to deal with that. Racism will always exist just like inclusive people will always exist. You decide what you want to focus on.</p>
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		By: User?		</title>
		<link>https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16039</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[User?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mambaonline.com/?p=14006#comment-16039</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16032&quot;&gt;toks&lt;/a&gt;.

When I say &#039;much better life&#039; I mean in comparison to most parts of the world (e.g. China, India, Russia and the rest of Africa) . I&#039;m very much aware that South Africa is not exactly the best place to be gay. There are plenty of problems that need to be dealt with.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m in no way saying that people should ignore the issues. All I&#039;m asking is that we are fair to ourselves. We have to take sometime to recognize our achievements. Mind you, South Africa is still a developing country. With that in mind, the progress made is commendable for such a country. It&#039;s one of the few countries in the world where gay people have pretty much equal legal rights. With the law and constitution on our side, we are in much better position to do even better. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s important to recognize both strengths and weaknesses in order to achieve greater things in life. Negativity alone wont get us anywhere. It&#039;s about time that an international news agency has shed light on the positive side of gay life in South Africa.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16032">toks</a>.</p>
<p>When I say &#8216;much better life&#8217; I mean in comparison to most parts of the world (e.g. China, India, Russia and the rest of Africa) . I&#8217;m very much aware that South Africa is not exactly the best place to be gay. There are plenty of problems that need to be dealt with.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in no way saying that people should ignore the issues. All I&#8217;m asking is that we are fair to ourselves. We have to take sometime to recognize our achievements. Mind you, South Africa is still a developing country. With that in mind, the progress made is commendable for such a country. It&#8217;s one of the few countries in the world where gay people have pretty much equal legal rights. With the law and constitution on our side, we are in much better position to do even better. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s important to recognize both strengths and weaknesses in order to achieve greater things in life. Negativity alone wont get us anywhere. It&#8217;s about time that an international news agency has shed light on the positive side of gay life in South Africa.</p>
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		By: Luke		</title>
		<link>https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16035</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mambaonline.com/?p=14006#comment-16035</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It is really hits home what these two researchers has put to paper. Many South Africans, who live in privilege, hate to confirm the truth. We can probably deduce from the article who they are. South Africa - and Cape Town in particular is still very much under &quot;colonial&quot; rule and many of the Gay people other than white needs to conform if they want to be accepted - sad but very true. I travel frequently across the world and interact with many cultures - but South Africa, with its past, is the most progressive of the lot - yes we even beat the West! &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;However, I often question why it is that white gay South Africans - or White South Africans in general that find it so hard to embrace the democracy that the majority of South Africans fought for - who now being gay - also benefit from. Its rather selective and speaks volumes of the racism that we need to overcome to become a truly welcoming and inclusive city. This is something that both black and white needs to look at. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yes, by all means celebrate the positives but let us be more inclusive in our &quot;celebratory&quot; selectiveness. My dealings alone with the Cape Town pride committee proved how &quot;exclusive&quot; the whole thing is - and to date nothing has been done to address the problems. The solution was simply &quot;lets have separate pride marches&quot; - how easy it is to solve, yet this is precisely why we fought for a new democratic dispensation where all is equal, not separate. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is probably the best researched outcome that we can use to highlight the problems our country and city face. It does not help that we only ever celebrate &quot;PRIDE&quot; in forms of a party and in areas where the rich and well-off gays live. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We must raise the flags on these issues, we must do more for our democracy, we must vote for parties that can make a difference, we must be more accepting and inclusive - it is our duty. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My question to this whole advocacy approach too is - why cant gay people be people too? why must we always conform to the stereotypes? why must we always march with flamboyance, with a DJ and loud party music, with with with... Let our voices and placards do the talking. The march recently did very little to highlight our cause - let us be us - not a show seeking attention for the wrong reasons while our placards says another.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <p>It is really hits home what these two researchers has put to paper. Many South Africans, who live in privilege, hate to confirm the truth. We can probably deduce from the article who they are. South Africa &#8211; and Cape Town in particular is still very much under &#8220;colonial&#8221; rule and many of the Gay people other than white needs to conform if they want to be accepted &#8211; sad but very true. I travel frequently across the world and interact with many cultures &#8211; but South Africa, with its past, is the most progressive of the lot &#8211; yes we even beat the West! </p>
<p>However, I often question why it is that white gay South Africans &#8211; or White South Africans in general that find it so hard to embrace the democracy that the majority of South Africans fought for &#8211; who now being gay &#8211; also benefit from. Its rather selective and speaks volumes of the racism that we need to overcome to become a truly welcoming and inclusive city. This is something that both black and white needs to look at. </p>
<p>Yes, by all means celebrate the positives but let us be more inclusive in our &#8220;celebratory&#8221; selectiveness. My dealings alone with the Cape Town pride committee proved how &#8220;exclusive&#8221; the whole thing is &#8211; and to date nothing has been done to address the problems. The solution was simply &#8220;lets have separate pride marches&#8221; &#8211; how easy it is to solve, yet this is precisely why we fought for a new democratic dispensation where all is equal, not separate. </p>
<p>This is probably the best researched outcome that we can use to highlight the problems our country and city face. It does not help that we only ever celebrate &#8220;PRIDE&#8221; in forms of a party and in areas where the rich and well-off gays live. </p>
<p>We must raise the flags on these issues, we must do more for our democracy, we must vote for parties that can make a difference, we must be more accepting and inclusive &#8211; it is our duty. </p>
<p>My question to this whole advocacy approach too is &#8211; why cant gay people be people too? why must we always conform to the stereotypes? why must we always march with flamboyance, with a DJ and loud party music, with with with&#8230; Let our voices and placards do the talking. The march recently did very little to highlight our cause &#8211; let us be us &#8211; not a show seeking attention for the wrong reasons while our placards says another.</p>
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		By: toks		</title>
		<link>https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16032</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[toks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mambaonline.com/?p=14006#comment-16032</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16017&quot;&gt;User?&lt;/a&gt;.

define &quot;much better life&quot; ... if i had it to do over again, i almost definitely would not have come to south africa. i remain in this country only because there is a lot to offer for someone with the amount of education that i have __ because the educational system is such crap, there is guaranteed job security for foreign black people with advanced degrees like myself.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16017">User?</a>.</p>
<p>define &#8220;much better life&#8221; &#8230; if i had it to do over again, i almost definitely would not have come to south africa. i remain in this country only because there is a lot to offer for someone with the amount of education that i have __ because the educational system is such crap, there is guaranteed job security for foreign black people with advanced degrees like myself.</p>
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		By: toks		</title>
		<link>https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16031</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[toks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mambaonline.com/?p=14006#comment-16031</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[that&#039;s really funny, i&#039;ve lived in several other african countries and in some ways had a much easier time socially than in south africa. but then again, i&#039;m a black and foreign and the only reason i didn&#039;t end up like this guy was my bank balance.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <p>that&#8217;s really funny, i&#8217;ve lived in several other african countries and in some ways had a much easier time socially than in south africa. but then again, i&#8217;m a black and foreign and the only reason i didn&#8217;t end up like this guy was my bank balance.</p>
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		By: User?		</title>
		<link>https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16017</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[User?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mambaonline.com/?p=14006#comment-16017</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There is no denying that the LGBT community in SA (regardless of race) lives a much better life than most other gay people in the world. Look at places like Eastern Europe and much of Asia (which contains the majority of the world population). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This article is unbalanced and therefor lacks credibility. The BBC article celebrated the achievements but also acknowledged the problems that need to be addressed. There are gay homeless and abused people in San Francisco, New York and London (which are arguably the most gay friendly cities in the world). Cape Town isn&#039;t the only city with issues. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I know we like to glorify victimhood in this country but perhaps we need to take a more upbeat course in life. Much has been achieved and yes more needs to be done but what&#039;s the point of fighting for it all if we don&#039;t take time to appreciate the good results so far?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <p>There is no denying that the LGBT community in SA (regardless of race) lives a much better life than most other gay people in the world. Look at places like Eastern Europe and much of Asia (which contains the majority of the world population). </p>
<p>This article is unbalanced and therefor lacks credibility. The BBC article celebrated the achievements but also acknowledged the problems that need to be addressed. There are gay homeless and abused people in San Francisco, New York and London (which are arguably the most gay friendly cities in the world). Cape Town isn&#8217;t the only city with issues. </p>
<p>I know we like to glorify victimhood in this country but perhaps we need to take a more upbeat course in life. Much has been achieved and yes more needs to be done but what&#8217;s the point of fighting for it all if we don&#8217;t take time to appreciate the good results so far?</p>
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		By: Stefan		</title>
		<link>https://www.mambaonline.com/2012/05/28/pinkwashing-south-africa/#comment-16015</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stefan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mambaonline.com/?p=14006#comment-16015</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s an interesting piece, but unfortunately Africa is indeed the worst place to be gay. Reports by Amnesty and ILGA confirm that Africa is most homophobic region in the world.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <p>It&#8217;s an interesting piece, but unfortunately Africa is indeed the worst place to be gay. Reports by Amnesty and ILGA confirm that Africa is most homophobic region in the world.</p>
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