DEAR WHITE GAY BOYS
Dear white gay boys,
As a person of colour, I’d like to introduce you to a couple of ideas which may help inform your conversations about race (and bodies more generally).
To ease you into this, potentially uncomfortable discussion, I’d like to introduce you to an idea. So we have the world and all the people living in it. But people are never just people. Due to several state of affairs (which I’ll allude to later) people were differentiated.
At birth, even though we’re just little baby lumps we’re differentiated into boys and girls. When we start exploring our sexual selves we realise we’re attracted to the same-sex, or the opposite sex or both! We also realise we look different – some of us lighter and some darker. Some of us speak English and others Xhosa, or Arabic or Mandarin or Shona. Then there’s culture, religion, class and nationality (amongst many other factors).
The thing is – these categories are not neutral. You see if you’re female it’s likely you’ll be paid less and not be promoted (isn’t that unfair!?). And I’m sure we’ll agree, if you’re gay/lesbian/bi it’s likely someone will call you a fag/stabane/moffie and discriminate against you at home, work or church. And it’s never cool to be discriminated against, is it? It gets worse – when we talk about race in South Africa – if you’re white, it’s likely you benefited from apartheid. And if you look at the latest census, white people are still a lot better off than black people. See how these categories can often mean differentiated access to resources?
Other than race we still have other categories which like those above also invoke inequality. For example, people with HIV/AIDS, foreigners or those who speak a language other than English as their first, are also likely to also experience discrimination. Do you get me? So bear this in mind, there are categories of race, class, gender and sexuality (amongst others) – and these are part of a system. Due to the system, certain people get disadvantaged and privileged due to these categories. Got it?
So here goes:
The first idea is most obvious. Can you notice something about the clubs you hang out in? Is there anything missing? Well the one thing which is quite obvious to me is the lack of people of colour. Did you know we make up the majority of South Africa? Why do you think we aren’t here? I’d link this to a concept called white privilege. Keen to read more? (http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html) So basically being white (in this context) means that it’s likely you’re a little privileged.
The second idea linked closely to the first is male privilege. I guess I too sometimes forget that even as a gay man, I am privileged as a male. I too benefit from systems which discriminate against women and femininity more broadly. This is particularly obvious when we internalise our fear of femininity and manifest ourselves as straight-acting (isn’t that a little bit misogynist?). Keen to read more? (http://amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/) (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/08/1102204/-Gay-Men-and-Our-Bodies-and-Our-Selves-Some-Thoughts-on-Acceptance-of-Self-and-Others#) (http://www.vice.com/read/gay-men-and-their-not-so-cute-misogyny-problem)
So basically being male means that it’s likely that you are a little privileged. Also advocating for uber-masculinity means you reinforce the system which discriminates against women, and even worse adapt it to discriminate against femme men.
The third thing is colonisation. You might not realise this as a white person but colonisation really fucked things up for people of colour. Not only were people taken from the homes and sold into slavery, but entire sovereign states, cultures, languages and family structures were destroyed. If you think this sounds like a conspiracy theory – do a little research to understand its effects.
For example the only reason I am in South Africa is because of colonisation – from my heritage in Cape Malay/ Khoisan slave labour, to my South Asian heritage in the sugar cane fields of KwaZulu-Natal. Colonisation is still apparent in the way we talk about and describe people of colour. Are they exotic to you? Do you think they’re all smelly? Think about the ways in which you describe their culture. Is it this singular big scary thing? The problem lies there.
Colonisation is appropriate to you for two reasons. (a) it constructs sexuality of “the other” (the non-white/the oriental/the native) in particular problematic ways. (b) it reinforces problematic narratives about sexuality in those other spaces. Think of the other as anything outside your comfort zone (Soweto, Fordsburg, Cape Flats, Uganda, hairy chested Indian boys, tall Nigerian men- how do you think about or describe these?).
For example how have you been imagining Russian people during the Sochi games? How do you imagine their culture and democracy? Are any of these ideas based on research? If so, are these representations realistic? Have you been reading articles in English? From which region are these articles published? Think carefully about how “the other” is being constructed. How fair are these representations?
Essentially what I’m trying to say is that you need to own and understand colonisation and its effect, and realise how your sexual appetite (whether it’s I-only-sleep-with-white-people or i-love-chocolate or gimme-some-hairy-arab) is rooted in colonisation too.
Keen to read more? (http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/dr-yasser-dasmabebi/orientalism-for-dummies/) (http://www.thestate.ae/whats-race-got-to-do-with-it-white-privilege-asexuality/) (http://amptoons.com/blog/2013/08/17/the-hejab-cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-muslim-invisibility-in-the-west-1/comment-page-1/)
Lastly don’t gimme that basic nonsense about bodies. Let’s have a real conversation about fat-shaming. And by real I mean let’s talk about how we (me included) feel the need to reproduce ridiculous ideas about how our bodies should look. Who are the cover models of gay publications? Do they represent you and I? Keen to read more? (http://diaryofafatshionista.com/) (http://unapologeticallyfat.blogspot.com/2009/05/book-review-lessons-from-fatosphere.html) I think it’s important to reflect on how our attraction to certain body types is also rooted in inequality.
Don’t be angry, put the kettle on, have a cuppa and read this again. If you feel uncomfortable it’s ok, I feel uncomfortable too; it means we’re learning.
Revolutionary love,
GHK
ps: see Jasbir Puar’s work, Edward Said, Gayatri Spivak, Steve Biko and Arundhati Roy (http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?280234)
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Unfortunately you are generalising everything and all it boils down to is that you are blaming white males for everything…. even for who are at the clubs! Have you perhaps been to The Factory in the last few years? Simply Blue? Is it mainly white guys there?
Nowhere did I see any “blame” being apportioned… instead I read that we should interrogate our relative privilege and how it has constructed our attitude towards our fellow humans.
Exactly. Some people read the words and lose all the meaning.
” if you’re white, it’s likely you benefited from apartheid”
ENOUGH SAID
Yes, blame was apportioned. Just at colonialism directly, and white people implicitly (which is why it was addressed to white people).
Slit your wrist much? If I read one more sad regurgitated article about pathetic minorities bitching about gay men im going to vomit! Shut the F* up no one cares!
Lol, it seems you are a perfect example of what the writer is trying to expose i.e. using your privilege to shut up others, thereby denying that they could ever have a lived experienced that differs to your own.
Using his privilege? HOW?? What does that even mean physically?? Is this privilege in ANY WAY physically manifest, with the ability to stifle speech??? He is not a perfect example of anything other than someone who doesn’t mind being crass.
This is awkward. We’re not a minority. In South Africa people of colour make up 90% of the population.
So you’re taking ‘people of colour’ to mean everyone who is not white? I think that is too blunt an instrument. Challenging anachronistic racial, gender or sexual categories is never going to be helped by harbouring a ‘them and us’ attitude.
My problem with this article is not so much the content as I agree with a lot of it ,but the fact that it does a lot of the same things it is decrying . One it imposes a generalised view of me and how I should act based purely on the colour of my skin .Be this from outside or in it falls in exactly the same traps. 1 of othering and 2 of assuming (nevermind the fact that colonialism was a economic system designed to enrich its owner ( Arabia , Europe etc) ,but othering and assuming were the building blocks of colonialisms)
Finally as a young gay man I’m thankful the scene is something I only visit from time to time and not something that dictates my life and writing. Yes if you stop othering and assuming then even the straight world isnt that scary for a out gay man. Maybe its due to my white male privilege ,maybe its due to not expecting the worst in people .
Nice!
As a south african I agree with Johan. This article seems to be based on personal scorn. Not particularly great in terms of a standing. Just using this as an analogy but nothing really separates the bully and the victims in your article Gabriel. The vicious circle of fighting for ones rights whilst willingly rejecting the freedoms of others gets us nowhere.
Thanks for this thought provoking article. The local and international media I agree play a large role with regards to how we see ourselves, especially the idea of beauty. It is the privileged few who own and control these mediums.
I’ve prepared this article ‘Dear Coloured Boys : The African Patriarchal Value System and it’s transference to Gay Bars in Johannesburg.’ proving that all these statements are either saccharine, ill-wrought or not considering the fact that, hey, all of these issues actually go both ways..
Sincerely,
A White Boy.
Dear white boy,
I would encourage you to write a response so that we may keep this useful discussion going. Also the
post aimed to highlight systemic injustice. In this this system (as the article showed with the various references) – it doesn’t go both ways. Instead it privileges white, male, masculine, cis-gendered and heterosexual formations, and disadvantages group who do not fit into this. Is this assemblage not suspiciously similar to the apartheid, or the imperial project?
xoxo
Coconut Boy
Dear Coconut boy,
I do not think that this is a useful conversation.
At all.
Intersectional feminism is already deeply unpopular. Reading this article felt like being stuck in a particularly bad conversation outside WITS Humanities on bad acid and flat beer. Please do not congratulate yourself for amassing so many detractors on this post, it’s not because people are uncomfortable about what you said, it’s because of how you say it. This entry-level academic stab is insulting to any who understands the English language and basic cultural studies.
Henry.
Hey Henry. Are you at Wits? If so, I would be surprised that the intersectionalists didn’t assassinate you yet.
If anything, I would acknowledge that I too am too blame for systemic inequality, and it is my responsibility, is it yours, to undo this.
Thank you for this.
I agree that to tell someone “to shut the “f” up” is hardly an argument. However, it does strike me very powerfully that the writer is hurt and, like hurt people, he is angry, and like hur and angry people, he finds a scapegoat in “white people.” He does, in that, fall foul of his own caution, namely, that groups are not monolithic. / I deduce from the writer’s name and his text that he is south Asian in in origin. I wonder how he has found the responses to his gay self from whatever section of the South Asian community he inhabits? Have they been happily accepting and warmly welcoming of his sexuality? If not, is his anger not, perhaps, misplaced in being directed at this amorphous, allegedly monolithic group, he calls white gay men? Can he tell us, FOR CERTAIN, that sexual proclivities and preferences are culturally based rather than biologically scripted??? Does he know this for certain? Whatever his answer, his urging us not to “be angry” would, judging from the tone of what he writes, emerge as a form of projection, and an injunction he might well apply to himself. And one thing Edward Said encouraged us not to do, was indulge in the “blame game.” Salaam
Great article. FANTASTIC article.
Growing up a white, privileged male in Durban, I thought I knew what being South African was. Then I met a man from London, who told me the best way to “see” your country is by leaving it, and seeing it through others’ eyes. I think GHK has beautifully held up a mirror to white, gay, males from the outside for us better to see ourselves. Well done.
A mirror? More like a liturgy for his church of self-hate.
Dear gay personal of colour
I really feel sorry that you should have suffered so much under colonization and all the other evils (real and perceived). I think every living being can compile a mile long list of the ‘unfair treatments’ that we have received (real and perceived). I simply do not see any benefit in doing that. I like the person who gets off his fat arse and do something about it, and detest those who just wish to record how much they have suffered.
I am offended that you seem to think that you must teach us ‘dear white gay’ boys about equality. This is pure racism.
While I respect your views, I think your article offers no new insights on the issue. Unlike, say Phil Mphela’s article “An Uneasy Truce” (http://philmphela.blogspot.com/2010/03/uneasy-truce.html) on his blog. Or Slikour’s article “Blacks Are Fools”, they both offer an insightful view and do not try and lay the blame for the shortcoming of the majority on the minority.
You are angry, just do not let that taint your view of all whites.
Ke a leboha
I’m not enamoured of this writer, but that blog is thought-provoking. Thank you. Actually, that doesn’t do it justice: it is refreshing, mostly because it is objectivist. People may ACT and THINK in racist ways, but we do not need to ARGUE on that level. The style of the blog is level-headed, restrained, thorough (very thorough). I feared for a moment that all the academics had slipped into the obfuscatory world of postmodernism.
I’m not sure what’s the point of this article… Do you also realise that just as you have not chosen your skin colour, amount of hair or sexuality, neither have I. I understand that some people get advantages that others don’t, but you don’t know me, and if you believe just because I’m a white guy I have had more advantages that all coloured people you are simply applying a stereotype.
I try and help those who are less advantaged than me, and if I’m at a disadvantage to someone else, I step up to the plate and try extra hard to ensure that the disposition I’m in does not show in the final results.
Are you going to club, if not then why? And is that really, really a good excuse? The article started out interesting, but it ultimately lead to nothing, and seems like a diary entry, but I hope it has made you feel better, if I ever meet you in a club, please say hi and I’ll by you a drink with my hard earned money.
I fail to see the point of this article. What am I, as “a privileged white boy” to do if people of so-called colour (as if I am some kind of transparent amoeba) do not frequent the gay venues in JHB? Must I pay your entrance fee? Must I dispose of my hard earned money and possessions and redistribute it all to the victims of oppression? My point is: What do you want from this little white boy? What are you asking from white boys? Give us some concrete suggestions and lay off the “victim narrative” that has become oh! so worn.
I have no idea to this day. Wallow in white guilt? Get a black best friend and invite him out? Then get berated indirectly when reading another article for having a token black friend that you “don’t understand”? Then wallow again in more white guilt? After that, the formula isn’t clear. Or at least, I haven’t seen a consensus on the next verse of the privilege-preachers’ Gospel…
I also fail to really see the point of this article. If the point is that “white boys” should be more open to seeing things from other people’s points of view, then wouldn’t it be more true and fair to say that that goes for everyone? If you want to come to as unbiased an understanding as possible of something (be it colonialism, dating, or homophobia, etc.) you need to be able to quite coldly and calculatedly look at facts and remove as much emotion from an analysis as possible (getting angry tends to cloud things dramatically); unfortunately this article does seem to get tied up in the victim narrative at the expense of other things. For instance, while it is true that, up until fairly recently in many parts of the world women were paid less for doing jobs (and some still are), one of the often quoted facts supposedly supporting this (“overall women earn less than men worldwide”) is based on an oversimplification of statistics: women also tend to go for jobs which pay less regardless of who you are (such as social services jobs). Also, this article does seem to fall into the trap of IMPLICITLY playing the blame game. It seems to rest on the assumption that the world-view of “white boys” is unrealistic and out of touch with reality; the same accusation is equally applicable (and sometimes more applicable) to many of the victim narratives floating around at the moment. In fact, the current victim narratives in use here are probably some of the least informed on earth, with a completely one-sided view of history. I’m not saying that people didn’t suffer or weren’t disempowered or anything like that; what I am saying is that many of these victim narratives themselves often turn into quite racist narratives and are often very inaccurate (think of the views of history presented by the EFF and ANC). I don’t know if it was your intention to play the blame game, but it is easy to see how your article could be interpreted as doing that.
Dearest people of the internet,
Thank you for your comments. I’d like to acknowledge your criticisms, and say that these prove that we need to reflect and engage, ourselves and others on the ways in which race, class, gender and sexuality manifests in South Africa.
This being said, Id like to highlight that this post (as tongue in cheek as the tone may be) aimed to highlight systemic injustice. I agree with your critiques of the system – I similar to you, agree that – these categories do not reflect our complex and contradictory lived experiences. However I’d like to encourage you to read the attached articles and reflect on how systemic injustice is pervasive in South African society. I’d also like to state that while we might experience this system in complex ways, I believe it is everyone’s responsibility (mine included) to try an undo injustice.
I’d also like to challenge you to channel your criticisms of me, or this piece in an article (or a letter like mine). Lets keep this conversation going, lets push ourselves to have uncomfortable discussions about race and class, sex and desire and gender.
Revolutionary hugs,
GHK
GHK seems hugely divided… as are many of us. But I am unconvinced that he understands his own dividedness. He sends – no doubt tongue in cheek, just – Revolutionary Hugs to his redearship. To assume that he is in anyway a Revolutionary is is on a par with his (self-contradictory) assumption that “gay white males” are all one thing. He wishes to insist that his interest is in “systemic injustice.” Yet he hardly manages to articulate how this might be undone. he urges – like a college professor – that we read his list of sources assuming with the implicit arrogance of his whole pice, that we have not done so. Also, no amount of citing the tired old classical references to some post-colonial debates “justifies” or “substantiates” the assumed “rightness” of his claims. He suffers fronm the colonising fo the mind he seems to decry: these are the new sacred texts which, if we but defer to, will lead us into some (unspecified) promised land, a promised land weeded of “systemic injustice.” This piece of his talks of existential pain, as I said previiously, and of the resort ot “sacred texts” as a way of “managing” that pain. Perhaps the pain (“push ourselves to have uncomfortable discussions”) of this ivory towerism he advocates might reduce the psychological wounding from which his article really stems. I hope so, but on present evidfence, very much doubt it. / I ask again, given the basic racist prejudice his piece exhibits, if the stigma and hostility towards fat, South Asian gay males that he seems rightly to worry about, has stemmed only from white gay males? Why has he not addressed this to his own “community” , for instance? Because, far from thinking of South Asian males as inevitably hairy, as he suspects we do, I think of them as often powerfully repressed and oppressed by their own culture, whether they happen to be homo- or hetero-sexual, if we must sit with these binaries. GHK presumably knows, fropm the inside, of the systemically derived stigma addressed towards men who have sex with men, and women who have sex with women, in his “own” culture. why does he choose not to address this?
Dear Alan,
Reread my post, reread your reply, and try again. If you cannot reflect on your gaze at the other and feel the need to use defenses which do not engage the argument – you have not yet understood systemic inequality.
Reread that reply and then read yours. It is not a rebuttal. You have not engaged with quite a bit (though I will deign to elaborate: specifically with regards to the question of “South Asians”).
Your article is a bad attempt at academic masturbation. You collected a set of articles about injustices and then decided to address it to WHITE gay boys. If it was successful, then at least you might have achieved an orgasm . I am sure that after this drivel, you can only echo the Bard in saying ‘Shall I hold a candle to my own shame’.
Stop opening your mouth!!! Keep quiet, you don’t know how do it….
How Boring. I could go on a tirade about how the black and Indian gay community do nothing to stop the ‘corrective rape’ of lesbians. Maybe you should reconcile your privilege over lesbian Indian and black woman? Looks like you don’t have a leg to stand on…..
PS: When he includes our thoughts – to the extent that they are ours – in a chapter in his thesis, I do very much hope he will accord us a footnote. As in “Retrieved from URL, on 13 February 2014).
No. Apparently it is our job to integrate his thoughts, wallow in white self-doubt perhaps, and come to some orgasmic revelation. If we don’t, we are told to reread his weird passages, our naughty responses, and then do our homework. It’s hopelessly condescending.
http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2014-02-11-white-supremacy-alive-and-well-and-in-a-community-near-you/
Why the hell is Mamba publishing K*K like this. Die skrywer van hierdie artikel moet grootword – wat ‘n pot K*K
AMEN
People like to victimize themselves in order to shift blame.
“Be the change you want to see in the world” and DO something about it.
First of all, if you use the word ‘systemic’ one more time I think I’ll actually vomit.
Second of all, what is the point of this “article”, who are you?, why did I bother reading this?
Indeed – this one needs to get over himself ?
I know. It’s like a corpse of someone who has died from hunger. It shouldn’t have happened, I don’t like it, but my eyes keep wandering over its horrid form.
I don’t know why I wasted my time reading this shit. Who are you silly writer? How come bambaonline allowed this stupid article to be publish it is an insult to our nation that had suffered already enough. Stop that kak of colonialism and slavery!!! The whites here wre not colonialist and the blacks were not slaves. Sooo what is your f….. Problem. Stop being stupid
We need to go beyond telling people to shut up when we don’t agree but; while historically being white certainly meant for a large portion of the white population greater access to opportunities all the way to blatant nepotism and race based access to jobs etc.
But; and people never acknowledge this there was and are poor whites – people who often are below the mythical breadline – people for whom life offered very few opportunities simply because they were white.
What is needed in the ‘new’ South Africa is for people of all races who are willing to work, to work hard and to understand they cannot be afforded ‘access’ based purely on racial or cultural lines.
We need to move away from this ‘we are one’ wishful thinking and realise and acknowledge that we are different – we are not some salad living heterogeneously in a bowl. My friends are largely white, I have friends (close friends) from other races but we are similar culturally – remember culture is everything passed down from generation to generation excluding genetics (this is an academically accepted definition of culture). I cannot befriend you simply because you are white, black, coloured, Indian etc, I require more. This is neither bad nor good. It is. What we have to do is cultivate a culture of respect which transcends race, cultural differences etc but rather acknowledges your place in the world without needing to place one above another. Time, intention and acceptance will do this.
What a pseudo-academic wank!
Postmodernism with content (largely fictional, but at least its not Derrida).
Oh get over yourself !
Gabriel Hoosain Khan seriously?
All of us have been discriminated against someway or another in the last 20 years, even 40 years, 60 years, and even 100 years. My gosh if you take South Africa’s history as far back as 1701, the problems run on. Every generation, every group of people in one way or another suffered the severe effects at the hand of another group of people. I’m sure if records existed we would even have been able to trace these effects 2000 years ago. You will never be able to equally set the wrongs of the past right by just mere looking at one single part of history, or by placing a stereo-typical view to one specific race, or culture (as you have done).
To assist in understanding, for example you mentioned colonialism. Let me make it clear that colonialism is by far not the only issue that has hit Africa, or the world for that matter. Only if you look at it a narrow point of view. Well, to even extend it, colonialism is not every white person’s fault, not even every white race’s fault, and as the ages move one, not even the current generation of which the majority don’t even know the history and the actual effects of that time. Just as men currently will never experience the feeling of carrying a baby, so will the generation of today not understand what past generations had to endure. Don’t always think it has been roses for all ‘lucky ones’. But as you seem to blame only one group, I guess then that same group can blame your race for your mistakes too. Trust me, you are no way near to perfect.
You know that the Roman Empire had a severe effect on the world over a millennium ago? Including Africa? Are we going to compensate those people too? I’m sure Biblical stories such as the Babylonian story, or perhaps King Herod’s actions or the Egyptian Faero’s mistakes (which has been proven by huge archaeological finds) are also going to initiate some form of compensation? What about the War history in South Africa of the 1800’s. Our History has only been documented more in detail since the 1700’s so we can only look at what happened since then, but I can guarantee you the Zulu’s and the Xhosa’s and the Tswana’s had their fair share of unequal and unfair history as well… The Anglo Boer Wars literately changed the shape of South Africa as we know it, the idea of a peaceful country were thrown into chaos, not because of the doing of one race, but by many. How are you going to accurately calculate each one’s fair share of fate and compensation? I don’t even think a super computer will have the ability to literately take every single effected soul’s situation in consideration and some how compensate that person to what is truly FAIR and EQUAL for his and hers specific situation. You are seeking some form of perfection which has never existed in any corner of the world. Not even in “free and fair” ‘oh so great’ USA.
The question come as to how we MOVE FORWARD? We try to AVOID doing those mistakes again Gabriel, that is how. World War II had a far worse effect on Europe than what South Africa can say about its past. They lost more than 30 million people in a 5 year period, and the majority of their major cities were flattened to the ground, including prosperous cities such as Paris and Berlin – and Europe do not have Africa’s wealth of resources…
However after such a sickening massacre, they MOVED FORWARD. They tried the ‘compensation route’ after World War I but it ended in a worse fate… That was about 20 years apart. So do South Africa near its 20-year mark – and the stability of SA today once again comes into question…
That’s right Gabriel, you can sit around and blame blame blame, but it does not change the mere fact that your own actions play an important role. You can either be more objective from your own side, or you can carry on discriminating against others… I’m sure if you established your own business you would probably opt for a ‘colored only’ (or for the most part at least) enterprise… Are you then being any better? No, you just carry on the ‘legacy’… You don’t know those you benefit if they deserve it, nor do you know those you do not benefit whether they deserve it? Remember what I said about the super computer not being able to calculate the exact effects? You don’t know my life story, nor I yours. How can either of us judge each other lives fair and equal?
You know Gabriel, this article questions my opinion about your motives for writing it. A headline like “Dear WHITE GAY boys”? Are you really trying to discuss one of the challenges South Africa sit with or merely provoking sensation? WHITE, for one word, GAY for another. You know that the majority of WHITE GAY fought mainly for the freedoms we as Gay people enjoy in SA today, and yet you somehow see it fit to show us how much you ‘hate’ us? Do we think we still wanna bother our efforts with those provoking us like this? I’m sure if the heading read dear BLACK GAY boy, the outrage would have been far worse especially if a white person wrote it. Seems to me that you yourself are not any more ‘equal in mindset’ than anyone else.
You mentioned for example the gay clubs. You are aware that those clubs are open to everyone in the public? You are aware that a club is part of a Culture and that no two cultures are the same nor can you force it to be the same – otherwise it would not have been a culture? You know you have no right to force one culture to be like another? Be it your own that is too. No club I have ever visited has ever forbidden or prevented any other race from entering (perhaps there may be, but they must be pretty hidden cause I’m not aware of them, nor will I support them it were so). I remember with former club Legends (Brooklyn) once, this black guy and white guy got married, and the club throw a party in their honor that night… All races are just as welcome as everyone else. It’s like I always say, there won’t be any, if you don’t go there… It’s like a stork party… The likelihood that men (well straight ones that is) will show up is remote, as it is normally a woman thing. It is the perception people have. Can you blame the woman for that? No, it’s just how it is. Men are welcome, as long as they enjoy the way it happens. Clubs can be opened by anyone, and the culture and vibe that club exerts, is up to the owner. He has the right to his own taste, culture and art. It is part of the unique freedom that we now have. You are always welcome in any of the Gay clubs around South Africa Gabriel, I pretty much doubt that anyone will prevent you from going there – except yourself.
The secret Gabriel, is to look past race. This is the only way we will achieve equality. I’m always very popular among my black colleagues. Purely cause I just enjoy their company and their personalities. No they don’t share my cultural thoughts, but at least I find something I can like about them, and enhance that… I have Indian and Colored friends, and we all just get along fine, why, cause they don’t provoke me, nor blame me, nor try to show me how much ‘hate’ they can muster. I think that what is mainly your attempt with this article, is to provoke yet another long senseless debate about South African race issues instead of actually being constructive… Perhaps the sheer thrill of having to be the author of another hot topic… I’m sure you don’t represent all Coloreds, cause if we “white gays” are just constantly going to be battered about our birth skin, well why would we even bother any further to make your ‘miserable life’ any better? Thank you, but you are not helping the situation at all…
Great article… clearly creating discomfort… easy to see why…
Yes, as racialised postmodern hocus-pocus tends to among the un-(initiated/deluded).
The problem here is not white boys, gays, bi’s or colonization. It is you! We live in a different world than 20 years ago, maybe not for you but for mist of us. Time to move on and adapt to the world we love in. Your statements are stupid and if you want to make us feel sorry for you then you have achieved it. Buddy you really need to stop feeling sorry that you are a gay colored man living in South Africa. You are just like the Zuma’s, Malema’s and so on. You are privileged to live in a country where we embrace everyone, have work for most of the citizens and you can walk freely and happily with you husband on hand. Please show me a country where there is no problems with discrimination, work or the way that one has become part of a country.
Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Open your eyes and take a good look at this country presently. Reverse apartheid. If whites (and people from other races) are so much better off as you say, it’s because they do an honest days work. Twenty years has passed. I am getting rather tired of these lame excuses. And no, I’m not a racist – I’m married to a wonderful, caring Indian/Arabic man.
Well said!
I am a person of colour in SA and proudly gay and south african, never thought of myself as less privileged. I have no idea why you would feel this way. You have made your point of view but more history would help in understanding the need for an article like this one. You cant paint everyone with the same brush at the end of the day. When someone feels a divide like this in their life, its not from current experience but more the background and where they come from, that they mirror in later life. This train of thought can lead to restricting you in life. We learn from the past and for that we are always humble.
I do accept that many people of colour feel uneasy around whites due to the past, so I don’t expect everyone to have the same self-esteem you have shown. It takes a brave person to refrain from self-pity, and for whatever little worth it may be coming from me, I think you’re cool.
Meh. A postmodernist-writer-in-training. Well, at least this article has largely coherent content, even if its connection to reality is tenuous.
Hey there, I’ve read & re -read this article a number of times. And thank you Gabriel for this inspiring piece. The number of replies bears testament to this. As a white gay guy that has been involves with two men of colour – both of Indian origin I can bear testament on how at times they have been discriminated against & this in the ‘liberal’ northern suburbs of Jhb by other gay men. A discriminated minority discriminating against another minority. Humph.
We need to take a long hard look at ourselves and embrace our fellow gay citizens irrespective of ‘colour’. I do think we all have our ‘preferences’ of who we want to sleep with but lets not be ridiculous about this – this involves issues such as smooth/hairy, tall/short, chub/athletic, black/white & all shades in between. We are gay people. Lets take the time to get to know each other. Beauty in diversity I say.
May I suggest a follow-up article?
“White responses to white privilege: a study in rationalization and defensiveness’.
Well, first of all I found this article a bit boring because it as if you have so much to say but you are holding back because your are trying to hard to be too diplomatic, This sorta took all the flavour out, I was waiting the boom but nothing…
So lets just cut to the chase, most white gay men in SA are still extremely racist towards people of colour, as a person of colour you usually get this look and nasty comment behind your back because you smiled or spoke with a white gay man. They usually use the phrase “I dont do colour, im not racist, its just my preference” now if you prefer someone because of the colour of their skin that is clearly racist and there is no justification for that. At the end of the day love has no limits, bounds or preference hence the saying (Love is blind)
But its cool, just because you do not like me because of the amount of melanin my skin produced, it will not change my mind or deter me from looking beyond skin colour, I will still live life openly and continue to embrace all and give everyone a fair chance. I live by the words of Dr Martin Luther king where he says
(I dream a dream where I will not be judged by the colour of my sking but by the contents of my character) And because I live by that Philosophy I am truely a happy person because my love has no limits.
Can you say the same about yourself???
No one can truely know what life is like until you have lived all aspects of it, and if you delude yourself by thinking that you do… by living in that little box you created for yourself then I got some news for you Boet.
And becuase of that you will never know.
But inspite of this I dont blame you, You have been brought up in a certain way and live by certain pressures enforced by your mothers and fathers and grand parents, and maybe there is very little hope for this generation, But i do hope that you teach your fellow fag hags and friends and cousins and everyone you know to teach their children to embrace all, And maybe we will not be here to see this, But that we would have planted seeds of hope and dreams and have created a world of equality.
Just saying. im out.
RyanBing.
Dear gay boys “no color indicated” please respect that.
Recently Ru Paul was interviewed for using the word “tranny” many people found that to be offensive and discriminatory towards transgender people, yet as RUP indicated that those transgender people where the first to throw stones and call there own kind trannies. I applaud RUP for his comment “I have been a tranny for 32 years an i am not about to stop using the word tranny, if you feel offended toughen the fuck up” your a man in a dress foe gods sake. The writher of this peace clearly has inner conflict with his own existence, and wants to point fingers to the whole world really. He is of color he is not a perfect size 32 and he is not a club hopping bunny because truthfully i think he cant dance of socialize with another person to save his life. Blaming others because you are ashamed of yourself is not going to solve your problem. Make peace with yourself dude and you will see the world is not such a bad place , you might even get laid! If you cant stand tall and be proud of who you are, and what you are how can you expect others to respect you for those same reasons. Your GAY you pray get use to it!!! Haters will always hate don’t be so caught up in the negativity that you forget how wonderful life, especially yours could be.
Lots of love
Preston
A Pink boy
Well, Mr Khan just showed us what a “holier-than-thou,” bigoted, stupid cunt he is :/