OIA OPENING GALLERY
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The annual Out In Africa gay and lesbian film festival recently launched its 16th edition at Montecasino, Joburg. Mambaonline was there to hobnob and capture the occasion.
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The annual Out In Africa gay and lesbian film festival recently launched its 16th edition at Montecasino, Joburg. Mambaonline was there to hobnob and capture the occasion.
Pic 9. Guy on the left VERY cute!! Hi!!
pic 9. I think the one on the right is cute.
Pic 9. Whats the fuss guys? Are you that bored that you have to comment about peoples looks? Why don’t you rather just print their pic and have a wank over it?
. lol!
Hmm…. That sounds like a good idea Jaric. My printer is printing out a few of them as we speak. Lube, here I come! *squirt* *squirt*
Pic 9. I think neither are cute. So there. Case fucking closed.
Dont people dress up for opening nights…. All the people look like they just arrived from work.
I know it is just a movie opening, but couldn’t the guests clean up a bit…
Nasty comments.. For all the bitches on here that always cant wait to leave a nasty comment take my advice. If u o mighty one who always thinks u are the best dont have anything nice to say about other people and their dress code then keep ur trap shut capish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go look in the mirror and see how flippen disgusting u look on the inside. Now doesnt that just make u want to vommit all over??
HAHAHAHA. You must have been one of the crappy dressers then! So Defensive!!LOL *wink*
Shame sweety…. Did someone diss your outfit booby? Let’s have a good cry now.
agge nee wat. good heavens wow, i think i am going to just agree!!!, What more
forget the outfits!. forget the outfits, did anybody notice that there are black and white people at this event! OMG! its true, they do go to the same events and do the same things and the world did NOT come to and end… amazing!
Official Closing Party For Jozi. The underground polysexaul party crew are back for one night of international travel and treats. join us in the mile high club… Expect a luscious international soundtrack of music from deep and jacking, swirled with electro disco and some funky house from your beat pilot DJs including: ANNA PLANK (citrus lounge debut) JUSB (1st friday) DOCTOR STONE (sound republic) PLUS resident DJ GROOVY Q
and more to be confirmed shortly! Plus live performances from: PATTY PAZAZZ – jozis tallest airhostess. THE TROLLIE DOLLIES – male dance troupe.
We are the OFFICIAL closing party for the Johannesburg Out In Africa film festival see http://www.oia.co.za for full listings – see also http://www.new.facebook.com/outinafricaFF
TICKETS PRESALE: Limited edition CD tickets available at R100.00
Std Entry R80.00 available exclusively from http://www.strictlytickets.co.za ON THE DOOR: Limited edition CD ticket R120.00 Std ticket B4 11pm R80.00 Std tickets after 11pm R100.00 FULL DOOR LOCKDOWN @ 12 Midnight!
Invite your friends to the party and stand in line to WIN a bar tab for yourself at the party! SEE YOU ON FRIDAY 11th SEPTEMBER 2009! Citrus Lounge (Lemon8) 38 Rogers Road corner Webber Road Selby
Johannesburg Info http://www.cliqueevents.co.za
Q. Hardly any people of colour, AGAIN!!!
Yawn
So who’s fault is it?. Why do “guys of color” always complain about the lack of dark faces at parties? Surely, being on this site, you ARE aware of the parties happening? So why don’t you get your buddies together and actually pull your fingers out of your asses and ATTEND the parties. It is oh so easy to cry racism everytime something is not to yor liking, but how about actually doing something for a change? I have never seen a “whites only” sign outside ANY party, so if its only whities attending, who is to blame? EVERYONE’s invited, and if you don’t attend, it is your own fault. It is mentalities like this that will prevent this country from ever going forward…
UMMM…. DarkChild. I see plenty of people of colour there. You must be one of the people that just like to complain and is still stuck in the past. Get your eyes checked as well and actually maybe look at the pics. or you must be one of those stuck on the gravy train. BTW i am a person of colour.
100% agreed George. Such idiocy. This acceptance of this over-sensitive attitude to perceived (more like imagined) racism must stop. Go to these events yourself and stop complaining about a lack of demographic representation! Pathetic!
Here we go again….. Darkchild…. how many white people are in the Simply Blue birthday gallery…. then lets talk! This racism crap really gets my blood boiling!!!!
White racism on the queer scene. It’s embarrassing to see the defenses of racism other white South African queers mount when they are challenged. You don’t need a “Whites Only” sign at the door to alienate Black people: attitudes like the ones in the responses below are enough. And if you see “plenty” of Black people in the photographs, perhaps you need to check your perception. Excluding photograph 22 (which in itself shows __ at a guess __ 8 phenotypically white folk and 3 phenotypically Black folk) there are 46 white people foregrounded in the other photographs, and only 16 Black people. The 6 other phenotypically Black bodies appear in the background as incidental inclusion in the photographs. Now let’s check the demographic composition of this majority Black country and as a white person I’m sort of irritated when the presence of a few Black people in representation becomes the excuse racist white folk use to de_clare that the party or event wasn’t dominated (DELIBERATELY!) by white folk. Also, the link for this gallery on the main page shows two white men (I guess the thinking may be if you put something else there the main target audience won’t identify with it and assume it isn’t about them or for them and hence show no interest).
When the racist assumptions of mainstream middle class South Africa are the unspoken assumptions of queers who complain about their “oppression” in that mainstream life yet want to embrace it, we as queers (and particularly us white queers) must address it. White racism is not something Black people should address: they’ve done enough of our shit work for far too long; our racism must be addressed by us.
Missed the point. You are so far off it is actually funny. I am anything but a racist, and you missed the point. By bitching everytime there is a gallery on here that there are not enough black faces are doing NOTHING for the peaceful non-racial wish you have. The point is, attitudes and demographics or not, the event was open to all. Why must the white people who actually attend be made feel like racists every time by some black guy because “we don’t see black faces”. I have NEVER seen any type of racist attitude by any white gay guy towards a black gay guy at any function, so I fail to see why black people feel “unwelcome”. For me it sounds more like complaining for the sake of complaining. The point is, ATTEND, actually go if you want to see black faces in pictures, and if you don’t, don’t blame the whities who did go, or accuse anyone of racism. We are all tired of people in this country, white, black, gay, straight, male, female that wants to ruin everything by bringing race into it. Before we can do that, things will NEVER change. It is just stupid and childish.
Yet. Ironically you raise the issue of “listening”, and hearing what is being said. You say I miss the point. Actually, I take the complaint of Black homosexuals and lesbians SERIOUSLY when they tell me they experience racism. Instead of retreating into a defensive posture (“But I’m not racist and I don’t see what you’re talking about.”) thereby denying the real experiences of people (much like homophobes will posture defensively that they don’t see the issue; some of their best friends, etc. and there is no sign that says “No Faggots” etc. AND they have never seen any heterosexual person be homophobic towards the …), I listen, and think about my behaviour, my life, and try to figure out how to meet people halfway. As someone who is read as white South African, I own up to my implication in this racist society we live in, and instead of constantly defending my life as it is, I attempt to change it. As for the galleries on this site, if they are accurate reflections of the parties themselves, then some OTHER parties ought to be covered (I like going to parties which resemble the country I live in, so I’m always thankfully a phenotypical minority at the social events I attend and it is wonderful because that is the South Africa I live in). If, however, the galleries show a skewed version of the events (as some people indicate), the question is why this site chooses to represent the events as predominantly white and masculine, with a sort of nod in the direction of “PC” by including some women and a few Black folk.
And this constant denial of the racism of white queer folk by white queer folk when it is pointed out by Black queer folk is tiresome. I refuse to be complicit, especially when I am implicated. I can’t remember when last I was in a photograph with only white folk next to me (the nuclear family snaps with Mum and Dad aside). From preschool all the way through uni the photos documenting my life include all sorts of people. Fifteen years on, as year after year many white queers embrace Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu, one wonders how many REAL Black South Africans they engage with as equals rather than merely the symbolic ones.
So if something positive is to be gained from the pained experiences of Black folk at queer events, I suggest it is our duty as queer folk (all of us) to reorient our way of looking at things and to reflect on the ways our lives mirror and sometimes intensify the separations of the mainstream society we want recognition from. No one is free of hatred and oppression until everyone is free. You can’t fight homophobia with racists on your side.
And it is an anti-racist country some of us fight for (and some of our parents made sacrifices for), not a “non-racial” country. And perhaps I don’t get defensive when people complain about the racism of South Africa’s queer scenes because I know the complaint does not apply to me AND I don’t disagree with them because I HAVE seen it myself so it doesn’t surprise me.
. You drone on and on about how unfortunate you are, but if you listen and see as well as you say, you will know that not only black people experience racism. Why is it that black south africans think racism is a “white-hate-black” thing? White south africans also experience racism every day. I never said that racism does not exist, but if you are looking for it in every single thing in your life, even something as stupid as a few photos posted about a function, you are bound to find it.
And I refuse to apologise for something I did not do. Are you going to apologise for the black guy that raped and killed the white girl? No, because it wasn’t you, and the fact that you are black, does not make you party to the rapist’s crime. So why must I feel guilty or apologise for white assholes who are racist, or treat black people bad? But you expect all whites to do it, rather than just living and accepting in peace. Who is the real racist? The guy that treat everyone equally despite color, or the guy who bitches every time there are not enough “black faces” in a bunch of photograps?
What do you want us whities to do when you post the “Oh there are not enough black faces” every single time? Should we agree, and refuse to attend a party ever again? Would that make you happy, and make us not racist? Okay. Yes, the fact that there were 20 pictures of whites and 6 of blacks is DESPICABLE! HOW DARE THEY! RACISTS!
Happy now? How about looking at the set of pictures as PEOPLE and not colors, who the f&*( cares what color is on the galary heading. THAT my dear friend is the point
Anyway,
Misreading AGAIN. I have pointed out several times now that I am a white person: your rants against me and that terrible example about the mythical “Black rapist” (hello “Swart Gevaar”) are both telling.
And while I may not be PARTY to the crime, I am implicated in it when the world which allows that crime is a world in which as a man I share in the privilege accorded men to view women as objects. Perhaps J.M. Coetzee’s distinction between complicity and implication would be useful to think through.
And I think I’ve made clear what I as a white person do (my actions) when I hear Black people complain about white racism. Instead of taking the position that as an individual I did not participate in it and therefore have no part in it, I recognise that it was done in my name and with the assumption that I would not object because I wouldn’t be negatively affected by it. Also, if we want political gains (gains for ALL of us) we cannot ignore when there are negative experiences by SOME of us; that is the nature of political action – not individual gains, but group gains; not individual actions, but group actions.
?. Okay, so now you’ve recognised it “was done in your name”, and I think we all had. Now what? Must we say “sorry” forever more for what our forefathers did? Will we move forward that way?
I am not for one moment being oblivious to the fact that racism is still alive and well, every South African, black or white these days experience it at some time. But what I am saying is, if we do not stop making everything about color and race, it will never go away. I say again, I see people in these pictures, not blacks and whites. And if there is a gallery of a party held in Soweto, or a fashion show, where there were mostly black guys, I still look at it and see people, not color. I will gain nothing by complaining about the fact that there are not enough pink people or green people or whatever. That is the point.
If every single person in this country would just in themselves, and only for themselves try to see people as people, and not sit and count how many people of each color there are, the world would be a much better place. The fact that someone actually browses through these pictures and physically count how many white faces and how many black faces there are shows nothing more than a serious personal problem, I don’t care what demographics say.
BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE…
Agreed, George. You do have a point 1985minotaur, but you are far too engrossed into it and consequently a little bit out of touch with reality. It’s a bit more complicated a situation than simply it being racist that the event organisers didn’t pull in more black people, or that more black people were photographed. Whether or not Mamba Online puts white faces on the covers of their albums (which isn’t always the case; they have these black barbie dolls or whatever here and there – does that satisfy you?) is beside the point. Black people themselves might also be reticent to attend such events since they may believe that they don’t ‘fit in’ in such events. It’s not as if white people are barring black people from attending.
Your comments are quite frankly embarrassing, 1985minotaur. Your level of white guilt is way off the mark – unhealthily so. Go see a shrink.
Not guilt. I don’t think of it as guilt; I am not complicit, but I am implicated. I suppose growing up in a family in which one’s father is a white South African man who chose to fight for the liberation of ALL people in the country of his birth at a huge cost to himself and his family rather than passively accept the white privilege into which he was born makes me uneasy about simple responses. Out of touch with reality: I guess if reality is a townhouse complex unit in Fourways or life on a golf estate, I am indeed out of touch. My ideas are informed by my everyday interaction with other South Africans, Black and white, political comrades with whom I share a goal of bringing about a changed South Africa, and for us, even when we party, we realise our every action is political in the true sense of the word. So no white guilt here, I’m afraid; but for me the options aren’t only “white guilt” or “mindless acceptance of the status quo”. And my criticism of this site is nuanced: my crude count of faces and phenotype was in response to a post which claimed that there was balance and a realistic reflection of contemporary SA.
It is, however, telling how emotionally laden the responses have been.
Then what?. You’re making an abstract point here. The reason why I’m saying you’re out of touch with reality is because you’re not pragmatically pointing out what exactly we/Mamba Online should be doing. What is it that you want?
A “balanced and realistic reflection of contemporary SA” would quite frankly, at this point in time, be a near-impossible thing to represent. To want to do so would be a pipe-dream. 15 years after Apartheid has ended, the state of the country is as such that different peoples live separate lives and almost practically have different cultures. Groups of people are almost in different dimensions here. It is particular of South Africa, actually. In America the situation is a bit different, since the general mindset is different, and the mutual acceptance a bit more prevalent. American black people don’t have as much of a victim mentality that many black people here have either – neither do French-speaking Africans I have met. This strong victim mentality of black people in this country really is particular to this country; black people from other African countries will tell you this.
South Africa still has a long way to go before it becomes truly integrated. However, to expect what you’re expecting right now is a bit ridiculous. You may not accept the status quo, but it is what it is. Good luck on trying to change it.
I’m also not sure what you’re inferring from the “emotionally laden responses” though. Please tell us more.
Knowledge. I think I’ve suggested a couple of things which could change about MambaOnline, but the assumptions from which you depart in your email (and state as FACTS rather than as opinions) indicate to me that you’re unlikely to do any of these.
(1) Have more phenotypically Black faces in the prominent areas of the website (the home page, eg. at this moment has none).
(2) When thumbnails are used as links to galleries, perhaps you could use phenotypically Black faces more often. If, as is indicated elsewhere, you “see” people, not Black or white people, how would one explain the overwhelming dominance of white men’s faces for a site in a country which is majority Black and whose queer population would therefore also be mostly Black? This is not an attack, just a matter for pondering.
(3) The “pick of the week” is invariably a young white man under the age of 35, mostly under 30. Is it possible that this minority group of queer men in South Africa could be the minority “pick of the week” as well? Or will this have a “cost”?
These are initial thoughts, but if you treat your assumptions about Black South Africans as having a “victim status” as a fact rather than as your opinion, much of what I suggest would either be “impossible” or “unthinkable”. I wonder how many Black people on this site see themselves as “victims” in agreement with your view. And what, one wonders, are the consequences of a view that “South African Blacks in general have a victim mentality” when confronted by real protest? I know what the historical precedent for this is in South Africa: willed white South African ignorance of Black lives has suddenly transformed into expertise on global Blackness.
Lord… you are on a mission of note. Good luck with that :-p. Just don’t be so humourless about it. You won’t convince anybody, trust me.
In any case, I didn’t mean to state things as fact, of course I can’t claim that everything I said is beyond-any-doubt true. What I’m arguing is only from what I’ve seen and experienced personally, and I consider myself to be rather impartial when it comes to South African issues (as I’m not only South African).
I can tell you that you have a very naive and blanketed opinion about all black South Africans yourself. You put them on a rather extremely high pedestal – what about other minorities which were oppressed during the Apartheid era? Of course people should fight for their rights, open people’s minds and improve their freedoms. You seem to be going a bit overboard with this though. We are not under Apartheid anymore – people are free to go wherever they please and mingle with whomever they want. I’m guessing what you want to do is to try and convince white people to include and treat black people as if they were their own. I can understand that, but it goes both ways as well. What I meant about a victim mentality when it comes to black people (in South Africa, I find) is that they are extremely sensitive to predicting racism from whites. Anything is perceived as racist – any annoyance with the black person (unrelated with racism), any negative mood, any criticism – is perceived as racist. Yes, there are racist white people (not only white however), but that’s not where the issue stops. That’s all I’m saying.
If you don’t want to concede to this, then I’m sorry, you’re living in a fantasy revolution :-p
Interesting debate. I don’t know if what 1985minotaur is saying is completely over exaggerated. I think he (or she?) is expressing a view felt by many black South Africans that, although many black South Africans come to the party, many white South Africans still prefer to stay marooned in their whites-only cocoon. One wonders whether, if the OIA was held in Maponya Mall that as many white South Africans would attend this event as black South Africans?
As a white gay person myself, I find it shocking how many white gays so easily forget that the struggle against apartheid was also very much a struggle for gay rights when they spout off about how, even though living in this country is utter shit, that at least the labour is cheap! But – oh no – we’re not racist because we care about the maid’s baby as if it were our own.
Now this does not necessarily leave the confines of dinner table conversation (with all that barbed wire, it’s no wonder..), but I often think that the attitude seeps through at least on a subconscious level. The basic point is that South Africa still is a racially divided society, and I think there is a greater duty on WHITE South Africans to integrate more willfully into South African society.
This is not to say that I think OIA is guilty of this – I think OIA is a fantastic organisation that actually has (at least in the past) done a great job of reaching out past the overly dominant gay white male sector of the community. But I think that white South Africans need to constantly remember that apartheid is not something easily forgotten, and although South Africa shouldn’t belabour itself under the memory, it should form as a backdrop for our understanding of how we relate to each other.
Yes…. I agree with you Tom.
Paradox?. You agree with Tom who agrees with some of what I say and complete contradicts what you say?
And why do you demand a concession? This rhetorical gesture means it’s your way or the highway: either one agrees with your view or one is mad?
It is precisely this sense of entitlement to controlling the debate on racism which whiteness arrogates unto itself that I as a white person distance myself from. But then my history in antiracist struggle has taught me to listen for nuances and to avoid the sort of generalising statements about “Black people” as those with a “victim mentality”. Also, the South Africa I live in is one where, as Steven Friedman has pointed out, white people play the race card ALL THE TIME but pretend not to. Anyway, I would have to repeat myself (and it seems that you, Hein, either misread the arguments forwarded or choose to misconstrue them based on your assumptions of your “closer” familiarity with “South African reality”.
Aluta continua.
. Gosh you people have a lot to say!
wow. you guys really have a lot of time on your hands 🙂
Status quo. And as for changing the status quo: this country has a long and admirable history of people objecting to the status quo and struggling to change it; it also has a long history of a smaller group of people NOT wanting to change it, resisting changing it because they refuse to give up the privilege they have in the status quo.
Can one really say that the status quo cannot be changed in SOUTH AFRICA? You use the example of the 15 years since 1994 as a mark of some change. And if everyone admitted there was no point to resisting institutionalised state racism back in 1948, and just said, “that’s the way it is”, where would we be now? Then again, there are people who would prefer THAT scenario to the one most South Africans prefer.
. Typical of our black brotha’s – blaming the whites for our own incompetance, we are the racists
pic 2 ,tat dude hot!!. pic 2 , tat dude hot!!!
PIC 2- the one with the tatoos. Gorgeous-who is he