MR. GAY SA 2011 GRAND FINALE GALLERY
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Mr. Gay South Africa 2011 was crowned over the weekend, with Lance Weyer from East London taking the coveted title. Mambaonline was there to capture the social butterflies, the fans and the top three finalists.
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. Pic 16, that guy always styling…
. Thanks Andre, thats my man
. I dodn’t have a problem with white men winning… what I do take issue with is the ‘whiteness’ of the competition on the whole. The fact that there are so few black contestants who make the final cut is disturbing and probably needs to be explained by organizers. Is it because black men don’t enter in numbers or is it ‘rigged’ in such a way that the majority of finalists are white… in order to cater for a white, sexually racist audience? if the former is the problem then poor marketing is at the root of it, but that doesn’t let organizer’s off the hook from potential racial bias because we have been post Apartheid for nearly 18 years now and if they havent gotten it right by now, it can only be for lack of trying. If its the latter then double shame on those pandering to generic, Eurocentric notions of male beauty in a country that essentially the capital of Africa. Also, I never hear anything about organizers rallying around important political issues that affect our community – issues such as homophobia against black lesbians and the threat faced by gay people in general due to poverty, unemployment and HIV/AIDS (largely a black issue). For those want to challenge me on my own racism… maybe thinking that I am not happy with a white winner… the truth is that I am not entirely happy with the fact that Lance won. Yeah, he is cute and bursting with muscle, but the real stud of the evening in my opinion was someone Hitler would have cheered for… the dreamy blue-eyed boy, Alexander Steyn. All I am saying is that the organizers should look at catering for a broader palette of tastes… sexual racism is alive and well and it’s easy to see the event as in some way supporting that particular mindset by not updating the event as a uniquely African one. BTW, Well one, Lance. Unlucky Alexander!
. get over yourself dude
. Well done Mr. Gay SA, however I must agree with the statements above – I have been following this farce for a while and it is disgusting how this has become 1. POLITICAL – using the DA – a historically WHITE party to endorse them and 2, Your ever so lilly white winners ALL THE TIME. Get with the program people. THIS IS MORE THAN SEXUAL RACISM- this is APARTHEID ALL OVER AGAIN. VERY SAD….
. Coconut
. These guys will NEVER allow someone from the ANC to win- (unless he was white….)
. um…go back to school…..and learn to write…..
. Yes, and ANC gay guy will never win this competition – so fuck of
. I have to agree this competition is a joke why do non- whites even waste their time entering this stupid thing this is a whites only and will always be as non-whites we need to just accept that whites even gay whites will never change and will always think of themselves as superior to others.
. I don’t agree that we should simply accept the terms on which our desires as black people are accounted or not accounted for. There is a lot of money that goes into this particular competition and hell of a lot more made. Because of this certain value systems get more air time than others and in this case its a very American /Euroccentric system – a system that couldn’t give a damn about African perspectives – on male on male desire and other related issues. As a result the money goes into coffers of people who either remain silent on salient issues or don’t care at all. Like I have stated in a previous post, it is not about a black or white man walking away with the crown, its about the sense of ‘whiteness that prevails. As it stands there are three men in Cameroon sitting in jail fo rtheir sexuality… precisely because black homosexuality is seen as ugly, worthless and not worth celebrating in the mainstream. Mr. Gay SA offers a unique opportunity to address this but instead back in the name of a good time. Think what could be possible with the thousands made at a competition like this if put to use in an organisation that rallies around anti-homphobia campaigns in Africa. To be short, don’t just accept these things… let your voice be heard… and maybe don’t put your money into hands that really don’t give a damn about what you think or feel.
. I know the organisers and can promise you, they pay IN and do not get a cent out of this.
. I would love to know how much sms’s were tallied when it all ended.. must certainly be a nice number, one that should be in a financial report… What did you say again, they Pay in? Oh please… you should like the “Seven wonders competition”… i say no more.. nice spin, fortunately we know better! *wink*
. I cannot say this often enough, as long as we have these social norms that make people believe that to be gay is to be “white”, blond, have muscles, drive a mini cooper, wear a name branded watch and have a accent, oh and live in a leafy suburb, you excluded.
White gays have said it very clear over and over, we don’t really want you by us or in our venues, but we need to pretend for the sake of our “democracy”. This whole thing is a joke and likewise is Koenie… who is the front-runner of this charade.
Why not just say, you guys just add to our representation that gives us overseas money and sponsors, but in reality, we don’t really want you as gays.
Its sad that it has also become a DA against the ANC, nothings new, as a gay man, you must never vote against a vote man.. This authoritarianism must come to an end!
We must reclaim our rightful places on Pride boards of committees, on the MCQP, and other places of gay interest. We demand our inclusiveness! fuck this shit!
And we dont want fake blacks like Louis on Cape Town Pride, or that Zimbabwean from the gay radio station, who all speak with fake accents and pretend to have our causes at heart. They must go fight and sit on boards in their own country, where their own people will tell them where to get off! in fact these fake blacks don’t even know our culture, don’t come from our communities, will never understand our struggle for equality and inclusiveness. They live in places like Seapoint, Greenpoint, Sandton etc.
Stand-up for your right and tell white racist gays where to get off! end of story!
. Al wat ek sien is gay wit queens!! an dis reg ouens, hierdie rasisme moet na n einde kom! Ek kan myself nie insien waarom mense soos koenie betrokke is met hierde tiepe ding? het hey nie wrk in die hof of its nie? Kry n lewe ou, end stel die pageant oop vir alle kleure van die nasie.. Ek is skaam vir my eie ras.. wens ek kon kleur verander!
. Please be proud of your skin colour but not of what those of your skin colour are doing here
. Can only laugh at these comments… If this competition is about looks then it’s pretty clear that Lance had no competition. He is the ONLY one with with a buff – well worked and defined body. Also the one that spends most time in the gym to get this honor. To get to his level would take you nothing less than five hard years in the gym. None of his other competitors have a body in his class. If you call these guys hot/sexy than I would say, wake up. It’s an embarrassing moment for the SA gay community. Hot = people like Francois Hougaardt, Pierre Spies and Morne Steyn. They (this year’s competitors) all look like they need allot of pies…. Why make this a racial thing if it’s clear that he had no competition from all of them? Glad to see you won on merit Lance and not BEE status.
. Actually if this was a bodybuilding competition then your comments would have had more “weight” if you get me *wink*. This is: 1) Gay Male competition 2) South African males can apply. It says nowhere that Bodybuilders only or Beauty Queens who look men can enter only. Also it doesnt specify race. So i suggest they open the competition to everyone and let REAL MERIT do the voting, not Political Parties, Your whiteness or preconceived ideas of what gay South Africans should all be about.
. Last time I checked, it was Mr GAY SA and not Mr BUTCH SA …
. I’m black. Here’s my defeat of the sexual racism argument.
Lance is beautiful to look at. I like that he looks like a Mens Health cover model. It’s great to have a crush on someone who won’t be disgusted that you like him. I also like how he has this everyman persona. That he is in public service and stands for the disadvantaged, marginalised gays is also quite good. And let’s not forget that Mens Health magazine has been selling this ideal of sex for years. If Max Mmethi was gay he’d also win.
At this point I claim that the standard of beauty that you call eurocentric is a lot more layered than you’d think. Legend has it that the Mens Health aesthetic is a descendant of a time when gay men didn’t want to look like they had AIDS. AIDS wilts muscle. Having muscle means no AIDS. Come Calvin Klein selling this muscle image in underwear since the 1990’s you get that many modern day men, gay or straight, like that image. I definitely admit in this paragraph that, even if you do believe that the image of beauty in society can be altered, the motivation for alteration is much better explained by other ideas rather than racial bias.
And here is where I unashamedly sell out blacks. In the Castro in San Francisco, support of gay industry changed the way non-gays interacted with gays. If you weren’t gay friendly, you wouldn’t succeed in the Castro. This idea spread. Now it makes sense to support white business because white areas can more easily support areas like the Castro. By your own evidence if you’re a Black lesbian you’ll get killed. There isn’t much noise for any other kind of gay except the Black kind. So it makes sense to divert monies out of black areas to white areas. It makes sense to marginalise black issues for the sake of gay ones.
So there you have it. The faults in your own logic, based on your own ideas, actually champion Sexual Racism.
. This is a very complex argument in response to what is essentially a very simple issue: black bodies, in competitions of this nature, are unpalatable. You are either for or against this idea. The question is what do you do about it? Dont get things twisted. If I could wrap up Alexander Steyn (1st prince), take him home with me and live happily ever after I would. Lance comes with too much muscle for me. But is it too much to ask for organizers to challenge the status quo and commit to a broader, more all-encompassing approach? Sadly, for otherwise smart black men like you, it is.
. WTF! Black bodies unpalatable! Your racial bias is astounding! I think a NATIONAL FUCK ACCROSS THE RACE LINE is needed. I am an Afrikaner and have had black, asian, indian & white lovers. And I have to say it depends on the individual. There are plenty of hot black men. Mr GaySA simply did not engage the black communities / worked on their white supremist image ENOUGH!
There is no TRY people! Do!
. Ngqundu wako!!! Uvela phi? Apartheid-town?
. There seems to be enough racism arguments here to merit a separatist contest called Mr Black Gay South Africa. They do such contests all the time.
Does anyone think that there is a good chance that Mr Black Gay South Africa would measure well against Lance Weyer?
. I’ve known Coenie for quite a few years now, and can remember plenty on conversations between me and him with regards to getting men of color to enter this competition, its not that easy, they simply don’t want to enter. Reason are legit and understandable as to why, due to their circumstances they live in. It takes allot for a black man or even Indian man to have the courage to enter such a competition and face his community and culture. Id be over the moon if a black man wins this competition, but this is all easier said than done. Back to my point, there is no such thing that Coenie and the rest of the organisation are racists and don’t want black people to enter or win. You all go try and find those black/Indian candidates that is prepared to represent a community on a national and even international scale, and then we can talk again. Not sure if any of you remember the Indian finalist from this year, the first ever, did you see him at the final? No, did Coenie ask him to leave? I don’t think so. So all you detectives out there, maybe go look a bit deeper before voicing your negative opinions.
. Oh and on the whole DA debate, try and look past the political party, it had nothing to do with which party he supports, rather look at him as a political figure that has access to a platform to really represent the community, not a thing all of us have. Coenie is also involved with the Pink Loerie in Knysna, and for many many years the Mayor of Knysna has been a good friend of the event, and she was from the ANC, so once again, the vote was not about what party he supports but merely a fact that he is a political figure which I think is great.
. Sorry Johan, but the fact that a DA rep. won makes it harder to swallow that these guys are really trying hard to market themselves as ALL INCLUSIVE . How dare you speak for people of colour saying “THEY SIMPLY DON’T WANT TO ENTER” EIsh, Dankie my baas, maar…eish…WE CAN DECIDE FOR OURSELVES!!!
. My Baas? I’m not your boss. What the party stands for is beside the point, I don’t see how this is relevant. And as for the men of color that enters, its a fact. Did you enter? Or anybody you know that was declined entry? The only thing I agree with in your statement is your username “Nonsense”
. IT IS RELEVANT WHAT THE DA PARTY STANDS FOR in this competition because MR GAY SA MARKETED the winner as an OFFICIAL OF THE DA. No, I did not enter. Why is that relevant? I am making a statement here.
. How dare you speak on my behalf! Oh Please!!!
Please tell me exactly when did Mr Gay South Africa go into local township communities or bars to promote this “Pageant”? huh? please tell in detail? also when was posters or flyers hung in our communities?
So please, dont act or try to spin things like MAC Maharaj!! Not gonna work BAAS!
This whole thing is a joke, if you in fact engage with local communities then you will get the result you want. The real reason is, black people is just not want you want or look for, period – so stop playing games with us.
also this whole DA party thing, Nah-ha-ah! wena bootie!! So as it sounds, you only selected him because he could further the cause of Mr Gay South Africa? And lets not even go for what the DA stands for! I also happen to know that the DA and Helen dont even cut the ribbon at Cape Town Pride since she took office as mayor and now Premier, something that was done since the beginning of Cape Town Pride, from Theresa Soloman to Noma-India of the ANC Mayors.. The DA does not like to highlight gay issues.. ask Cape Town gays!!! So puh-lease!! shut your trap! All they doing is trying to make a name for themselves, and not even Helen herself congratulated our little poof of a winner!!! If you think the DA will give you support cause you highlighting their political party? I would like to see this happen!
. Mr GSA does not go into ANY bars to ask for entrants – whether white or black. They have to enter through the website and if they can’t, they can do so by fax or written – that was all said many times. Internet access is not an excuse – most lack gay men have access – just take a look at Facebook and you will see.
. Daar is nie genoeg hot swart ouens in die kompetisie nie WANT MNR GAYSA BEMARK NIE HULSELF AS N NOEMENSWAARDIGE NON-RASISTIESE KOMPETISIE NIE! As ek swart was sou ek OOK nie wou deelneem and DIE kompetisie nie. Daarin le die probleem- Die wenner (mooi man, wit, gespierd en n lid van die DA) – tipiese wit gay prentjie was baie van ons WIL sien- maar die feit bly staan – julle word ONGELUKKIG nou beskou in Suid-Afrika as n marginale rasistiese organisasie – dis jammer – want ek weet julle doen harde werk- ek stel voor julle kry n nuwe voorsitter, meer “non-Afrikaner-mentaliteits-tipe” en probeer weer – MOENIE OPGEE NIE! En veels geluk aan die DA politieke party ook en Lance. (Dalk kan die ANC n kans kry VOLGENDE keer, maar vir nou- maak maar die beste van hierdie probleem)
. I am an equality and human rights activist and ex pat living in San Francisco. I came to South Africa in March to be keynote speaker at Cape Town pride. I have lived in USA for 25 years. You should all stop bickering and listen to one point. South Africa has an all inclusive constitution, unlike any in the world!!! It was born from the insidious apartheid . Now South Africans must all learn to live according to its all inclusive intent. In fighting is counter productive. If any of you think that races were excluded for any reason, then you should work toward encouraging more outreach next year to all communities. Some people have more access to internet etc. than others. Also it is a valid point that people may fear persecution in their communities. From my experience with the issue of corrective rape of lesbians is that the Township lifestyle is much more of a safety issue if you are gay than if you live in suburbs. I also had a lot of contact with Francois Nel last year and it is not easy to be a spokesperson when you have to use a lot of your own resources – so if you dont have basic money its going to be hard to pursue the title. There are many factors. You should all work together as one to try and bring change to cultural disparity rather than separate and fight each other. The great thing about Lance’s win is the fact that HE IS an elected official. His platform is youth and normalizing being gay. The fact that he belongs to apolitical group is incidental to the fact hat he was elected by the people. Now shut the F up and get to the real work… change South Africa so that the constitutional tolerance can turn into nationwide acceptance. Get off your arses and do the work – all of you – not just the ones who wear the crowns!!!
. I find it interesting that your claim to fame is living in USA for 25 years. Clearly an expert on issues related to South African identity politics post Apartheid. I have little problem with you airing your views – last timeI checked it was a free country! I do take strong exception to the tone you’ve adopted – imperialist condescension is the description that comes to mind first.
. My friend, i come from the township and the corrective rape are isolated incidents. Incidents that need not happen, and i cannot re-iterate it more. The real thing is, people like you and other whites, are trying to make townships out to be these death-traps and murder capitals, when in fact – gay people have huge support, their pubs (yards) and shebeens… We are very happy, its just that when a few become disgruntled, they think that by raping us would change the situation. Sad yes i know, but thats the case. Now to get back to your “25 years of stay in that states” and to you now becoming the expert on this topic and what our constitution says.. let me say this, Come stay here and experience our lifestyle as gay blacks. Dont throw stones from afar and think you know it all! if no one has told you, You know Fokkol!! shut your fucking mouth, as they would say in America. The DA is mostly for whites, and i wouldnt be surprised if one of the reason he won was because he is affiliated to this political party. One of the agreements were probably, we will punt DA everytime we mention MR GAY SA in one sentence.. with corruption so rife, i really wouldnt be surprised. Please get a life and get to work on “marriage equality” in your own country.. that you were part of.. wow 25 years huh? Get the facts and comment informatively. White gays are racist and they give us very little exposure.. They do everything online because thats how whites communicate, blacks are still the poorer race and we dont have money to “connect” like they do! so please! they know how to play the game and make people like you believe them!
. Spot on Melanie. This debate has raged for many years – but do you see more black guys entering? No. But they are quick to criticise.
. the pageant only started in 2009… many years? pfft! and even if you claim so, its still a white affair.. something needs to change clearly!
. Ok, seriously! Not ALL of us live in shacks you know! In fact I live on Clifton beach, but why would I want to enter an Afrikaner DA-type pageant where I KNOW I do not stand a chance!!
. Not all of us live in SHACKS! Still- NO THANKS to this DA / Afrikaner-type / pageant.
. Lol Lance can barely speak Afrikaans
. DA forever!
. Aunty Helen Zille! Is that you? LOL!
. I would like to know WHY DO BLACK PEOPLE ALWAYS HAVE TO BRING SKIN COLOR INTO A CONVERSATION?????? JESUS! We are in 2011 people! I have been following this COMPETITION for the second year now, and let me tell you.
1. The competition is open to every one to enter. All you need is to be GAY. Not “WHITES ONLY OR BLACKS ONLY”!
2. Most of the Black Gay Males that entered last year, could hardly even speak over a mic.
3. I went on the cruise as well last year for the 1st time to see what this is all about and obviously for a small vacation, and when we got on the ship, the 2 black contestants were sleeping on the deck. I mean really?????
I see this not as an pageant, but as a competition. They look for an ambassador and not for a pretty face.
We are very fortunate as South Africans, as we are allowed to be gay and also get married etc.
There is too much hate speech between South Africans. We should all stand together and make it even better!
So all of you that keep on wining about fucking skin color, don’t actually have a clue of what is going on around you
. Written like a TRUE RACIST! I bet you have never experienced apartheid in YOUR life. So EASY FOR YOU TO SPEAK
. Hey WAKE UP! Not only BLACK PEOPLE are bringing skin colour into this conversation! I am WHITE and I am concerned about this pageant not being representative.
. Hey WAKE UP! Not only BLACK PEOPLE are bringing skin colour into this conversation! I am WHITE and I am concerned about this pageant not being representative.
. Me too. I am white and I do NOT support this strategy of1. Using a historically white party (THE DA) member and2. all-white winners. Somebody should put a stop to this.
. Its nice to see so many other colours seeing what we see… and there you have it, we not just making it racist, it is in fact racist!! face it koenie!!
. such a white affair!!! it looks more like Mr Gay Sweden!! Hope the winner wasn’t chosen because he is a DA councillor!!
. Of course he was chosen because he is DA – this brings publicity for the pageant.
. Of course he was chosen because he is DA – this brings publicity for the pageant.
. the black participant from OUT who was a finalist last year is a gay activist working in the community for little reward. he is good looking and has a great body.
. He already participated and came 3rd in 2009.
. Must say that Lance is hot! And nice and sweet!
The problem is that there aren’t enough black entrants. STOP GIVING EXCUSES and TAKE MORE ACTION! There are plenty of Mr Black SA / Club Simply Blue pageants to collaborate with.
The issue is that the organizers of Mr Gay SA want to monopolize the beauty pageant scene even preventing Miss Gay Western Cape from becoming Miss Gay SA.
So divided THEY fall… right into the crapper of racial disparity!
Why not use LOCAL pageants black and white, work with local clubs, the township NPO’s and CBO’s to get entrants and then give every contestant support.
Just a thought… black and indian entrants FALL OUT because they feel LEFT OUT?
. Finally someone with a brain. Thanks brotha.
. Its a case of “the results you seek is the results you’ll find”!! if they wanted more black contestants they could easily have found them! like you say and we know, there are many pageants being held in our township and coloured communities.. Cape town almost every year has only white entrants, with the most diverse racial groups in South Africa, you can only imagine the racial disparities happening down south. Also very white, with gays very divided in the Cape.
Cape Town pride is made up of almost all whites and they even used “jou ma se pride” as a slogan one year, how demeaning! lots of uproar from coloured people!! but alas, the devide is continuing, whites always try their hand at authoritativeness.. They claim their first “Gay” status and then oppress us… This circus of a pageant “MR GSA” is no different!
I say we take them to the newspapers, ETV, Special Assignment etc.. this shit gotta stop! and now a political mouthpiece for the DA too.. oh no!!! we must stop this shit!
. Mr GSA has nothing to do with any “Miss” competition … and there is no “Miss Gay SA” competition in existence.
. Miss Gay Western Cape? You can’t be serious. There are ONLY coloureds in that competition – no blacks, no whites, no Indians. And YOU shout racism? Try another one.
. actually, 2010 saw a black winner being crowned as Miss Cape Town Pride that went via that pagent as a fringe event. I would honestly re-evaluate my statement if i were you. please be very clear on what you try and say. also in 2010 there was 2 black contestants and one white, see Glitterboys and ganglands.. dont give the wrong impresson of Miss Gay Western Cape..
. Bave you guys thought this through? It is NOT appropriate for a political party official – DA COUNCILLOR (or any other party) to enter a BEAUTY pageant. This would be UNHEARD of in any other country. The winner should either resign from the DA or from this new title. As for the racial spat – let’s give it a chance and see what hapens in the near future. Congrats though to Lance for taking it this far, but as I said, he should never have been punted as a DA CONCILLOR in this competition. Bells & whistles go off here….
. Have you guys thought this through? It is NOT appropriate for a political party official – DA COUNCILLOR (or any other party) to enter a BEAUTY pageant. This would be UNHEARD of in any other country. The winner should either resign from the DA or from this new title. As for the racial spat – let’s give it a chance and see what hapens in the near future. Congrats though to Lance for taking it this far, but as I said, he should never have been punted as a DA CONCILLOR in this competition. Bells & whistles go off here….
. Another good reason to vote DA
. When an organization who claims to be in the interest of the gay community punts a political party, then we have a serious problem, especially one that has the overwhelm support of whites in this country. Also the DA is known as the Former DP, a political party who simply changed names but maintained its same principles as that of the DP, a minority party created to defend white causes and the white middle class. Look at the manifesto, if you dont believe me.
It is worrisome to us (the gay society) when we hear the word “DA” placed in-front of every word that says MRGAYSA or Lance in current reference.. which only alludes to some kind of agreement or campaign, which in turn then questions the winners “win”, some might even say, it was planned that way. In a country where the DA is the opposition, i`m sure they would do anything to get the majority’s attention.
The bottom line is, to be racist is not OK, and to be punting and to act like a mouth-piece for the DA in order to get a better standing from them and the overwhelming white supporters is ethically and morally wrong. Not only white people identify as gay, and this is what you and the rest of society needs to understand.
And so your comment on South Africans, the gay community and Black gay society is dumbfounded and needs redress. I suggest next time you are invited to Cape Town Pride, take the opportunity to see how racially divided it in fact is, and do try and speak your mind about it. Be the change we need in society don’t be like someone who sits in a glass house – and who fears stones and acts with ignorance – or echoes the sentiments because you identify with white gay people, that behaviour is unbecoming.
We need people who will encourage the involvement of all South Africans, whether they are poor or rich, black or white – such a society is what Mandela wished for us, not speak from the fringes of our boarders or from other nations and who fear us or reads News24.com and then claiming to know what we all about.
A response is not warranted, have a Good Day!
-SS
. i think this a very good and thorough response to what Melanie did with her irresponsible comments. I support Seb and everything he said, we need to certainly look and address these issues, not look past it every time. I dont think this is a personal attack on Mel, but rather a proper break down in discussing her flawed objectives of South Africans sitting from the US. Seb needs to be on a panel discussing this topic, i think he hits the nail on the head!
. Melanie, Your attitude and tone is seriously worrisome for someone who claims “25 years of fame” living in the states.
Let me just evaluate quickly, You were certainly not around to see the emancipation of our people, probably never backed a full and equal society and will never understand the plight of poor black South Africans who were oppressed, slaughtered and exploited to give white people a better life under apartheid rule.
Gay people in this country has many things to be thankful, one of it is probably the equal rights they enjoy today, precisely because black people laid down their lives to give you, and many other South Africans freedom from our dark past.
Today, Black gay South Africans are still inclusive enough and not seen as equals in gay white circles, a problem that is serious and very current in the South African gay context, something your “25 years of living abroad” wouldn’t understand. I say this out of the most sincerest ways, because your tone and attitude was very condescending towards loyal South Africans who chose to stay and make this country what it is today.
There is indeed a great need to take these discussions further and to expose the “hidden” racism embedded in our society, one that at one point stood on equal grounds against the discrimination that gays and lesbians faced, but today stand on opposite sides because race is the embodied problem. And so we must deal with such issues head-on as opposed to isolated incidents such as “corrective rape” and other issues which is not unique to a particular gender or sexuality, Rape in general is a problem that we as South Africans must and should stand against no matter who it affects. And this is our duty as citizens of this country. Likewise with racism, especially when it affects minority groups within groups, we need to say NO to such behavior and we need to address it whenever it shows its evil head. Not talk around it or sugar coat it.
Political interference is also another that is something better left at the door when entering such discussions, especially when we need to talk openly and honestly about issues that is of a racist nature, and it does seem that white people always feel the need to use such talk as a scape-goat and to brush it off as political, when in fact its people trying to stand up for their rights.
. My claim to fame is writing to mambaonline complaining that the meetmarket pic was always white despite many black (African, Coloured and Indian) members on this site. As luck would have it, very shortly black people we being chosen as meet market pics. Now let’s hope the same goes for clubs and pageants. Rather than trying to defend or justify society’s blatant discrimination, the justifyers and defenders should sit back and think about it realistically.
. Three points:
1. We chose to highlight the fact that Lance is a DA Councillor because it is newsworthy. We were not alone: this logic was also applied by most of the mainstream media in their headline coverage of Lance’s win. If he had been an ANC Councillor we would have done exactly the same thing.
2. The DA gets significantly more coverage on Mambaonline compared to other parties because it is undeniably the most vocal of all the parties on LGBT issues – issuing a number of press releases in the last year on matters such as ‘corrective rape’ and homophobia in the department of home affairs. In most cases, other parties have been comparatively silent.
3. We welcome robust debate on this page, but will not tolerate personal and offensive attacks against individuals. In other words, debate the issues and not the person. We will delete postings we deem inappropriate.
. In all fairness Mr Editor, at least you could have showed decisiveness in this regard. Mambaonline does seem to further the cause of the DA, and for that im a bit disappointed. I think Seb brought a very thorough and robust debate to the fore in his lengthy reply to Melanie Nathan, and perhaps you as a media company can highlight these issues and start a forum to discuss these issues on a formal platform. After all, many comments seems to echoe it in some form.
. What is wrong with a news website supporting a party of their choice? It is done all oer the world – each newspaper has a party which they support. Why must SA always be the exception to world rules??
. becuase it infringes in their right to impartial and to deliver news without fear or favour… that is why. This is part of why we marched for media freedom two tuesdays ago, all wearing black. if this is the standpoint all DA supporters are taking then, we should most definately have a Black Friday too!! Please, asseblief tog, think rationally!
. Well when an ANC Councillor wins then im sure mamba would say so, until then stop being so sour
. Im sure they will, but if you truly want a media that is unbiased, not fearful or in favour of the other, then write it just so, not with a certain flair that alludes to them backing one particular party. When the ANC does get it right, be fair and give adequate coverage also. I shudder to think that this would and is the position of mamba, unless they prove me wrong.
. I was a contestant in Gauteng. There were only two black and two coloured guys – and one Indian – out of more than 30. If they don’t enter, they can’t mae the finals. As easy as that. Stop complaining and enter.
. See my comment above to “No Support”
. At the KZN regionals ALL the contestants were black – two made it to the finals, Fahraaz and Mnqobi.
. I quote from their website; Coenie Kukkuk, Operations Director of Mr. Gay South Africa (Pty) Ltd., said We are grateful that overall, [the 2011 finalists were] a diverse group in terms of personalities, appearance, background and region including the first ever finalists from Mpumalanga and the Eastern Cape. We also have our first finalist ever from Indian descent and a finalist who is out and proud about his HIV positive status – which are welcome additions to the line-up. Our participation from non-white entrants is still below par, but there was a growth from only 11% of non-white entries in 2009 to just over 30% in 2011. That is an increase of about 100% per year and if this trend continues, the demographics will look much different in a few years time. Our efforts to encourage more black participants to enter will continue.
. If you don’t buy a ticket, you can’t win the lottery. If blacks do not enter, they can’t win.
. See my comment above to “No Support”
. The black community is quick to shout racism – but where was their support for the blacks in the voting SMS ? Only one black candidate Rudy made it to the top 5 on votes. Why did they not support the other blacks?
. In reality, if you dont include them, then of course they wont be informed, and if they not informed they cant vote. And if you only use one medium, one that cost money, you strategically exclude a particular group. Its like the Idols competition. If you only put the show on a satellite channel that cost R+- 550 p/m, a medium that many advantaged whites subscribe to, then of course its obvious who will win.. lets not overly complicate this and talk in circles… please be realistic and stop trying to act “clever”. Its simple maths… The fact remains, regardless of all the clever talk of the Afrikaner lawyer Koenie that was quoted below, it was created to advance the interest of the elitist. Unless you prove to all of us that you promoted entries on all levels and have made an effort to draw black, coloured and indian contestants – I am not convinced. So please stop trying to change our minds, we know the truth, stop it!
. The truth is the truth – there are thousands of black gays on Facebook – iof they can play there, they can enter online. And entries forms were also available on plain paper .. You have many excuses, but fact are facts. The black LGBTI community, as with Jhb Pride, is just absent.
. Actually we have an Unemployment rate of 23%, its mostly blacks that are unemployed. We also know that most blacks work in lower-income jobs, due to our great divide, i dont have to remind you. Also from those who are on “Facebook” – is the few blacks who had the opportunity to study and now have some access at work, risking their jobs. And from those blacks who are online, how many are actually gay? so please make relative comparisons, not lame excuses to prove a point. You have a huge gap from those who are actively online and thos South Africans who are not, black South Africans are simply not online, when compared to their white counterparts. We can only look towards NEWS24’s comment section to make a simple comparison, its a lily white thing over there, ask the editor… gotten so bad at the comments section with white racist, that they had to resort to facebook only logins, to curb it because most people log into facebook using their real identity. It has calmed down a bit.. and yes i know, i work in the online medium. Please be better informed next time, i really cannot spell simple logic out for you every time *wink*
. it is rather interesting to see those that are usually pulling the race card saying that the current dispensation is prejudicing them as a result of their being from the previous privileged classes no complaining that black people ‘shout racism’. look around you and you will see the truth when it comes to prejudices and racism!!
. As I said, I was a contestant in Gauteng. People here seem to misunderstand the process – it is not the JOB of the organisers to FIND entrants – their job is to organise – and by the way – one that they do not get paid for. This competition does not make money as some believe. It is the responsibility of the community members to enter … must they do that for the blacks as well? Enter for them, participate for them, do the charity work for them = and then they show up on the night and take the crown? Get real and get off your asses and enter. I am going to try again next year.
. I love your ignorance and condescending tone. How you some up black people with your white supremacist attitude on the whole thing, all because your were one the “contestants”… its exactly your type that we have been talking about all this time! Thank you for revealing and being a case study! Geez you just cant control yourself huh? and this is not an attract, its purely based on what you wrote! And to think we have people like you as neighbours and walking among our children, and spewing your hate! I really hope we have better white people in this country, ones that believe in all people, black and white, and ones that will give others an equal opportunity to do so freely and without prejudice. I am really ashamed to be share a similar race as you. But i believe in hope and the greater good of humanity, and that others will recognize that we need to give all black people an equal opportunity and true chance to be where we find ourselves today. Its a pity we got to it by oppressing black people.
. They have won Mr Gay World twice. That is all I need to know.
. and probably also rigged… why else would they host the event in 2012. i dunno, im just saying. and to be racist in this democratic country is most definitely not ok. come on guys, stop trying to conceal the REAL DEAL, lets do it right and get some black ouens to join… wat is tog die probleem? julle leef tog in africa…
. Dave, then roundup all the “black ouens” as you call them and enter them… lets see if you the real deal!!!!!
. I am with Gatvol!
. dave you sound like someones whos just jealous that he will never have what it takes to enter!
. This is not about the party. I doubt they went around searching for someone who is gay to be their poster boy. Let the councillor enjoy his shine without giving the DA credit for it. It’s unlikely that many other parties would have put a young, out, white man on their poster? How many young gay men are making such a difference their communities? Given all the politically endorsed homophobia in Africa, it is encouraging that a political party can be so progressive in allowing one of their own to enter. The only reason “DA councillor” is mentioned in every media article is that it’s sensationalist and will get people worked up to buy papers.
. As a Mr. GSA finalist 2011 i would like to thank you for voicing your opinions. It is these opinions that will assist in growing the competition. It has been a journey for me and I have realised that to voice your opinion you need to stand by it, stand up for it and take action. However all we do is vent:
1. I would like to commend Coenie for his efforts and endurance, through all the negativity he still stands today and delivers
2. Most off you have no idea of the work that gets put into a competition of such stature. It is proven to be prestigious on many levels. I have followed the competition through these past years and the previous finalists are still ambassadors.
3. There are certain points I agree on and disagree on but I will take action on them and Coenie has backed me up as he is an approachable man of stature. I must also inform you that in my decision to enter the competition, Coenie was there hunting me 24/7 I remember saying to myself if he pesters me once more I will enter and at that very moment he did.
. (Continued)
4. I hosted my charity fund raiser at Simply Blue on the 4th of November for Health4Men. This was in aid of engaging people of color as you guys put it. Last I checked White is also a color. Despite my advertising efforts which include, flyers handed out by myself at various prides(Pride, UJ Pride,Soweto Pride), at clubs in car windows, banners being put up in the South of Johannesburg, Health4Men handed out where ever they could including at the clinic in Baragwaneth Hospital in Soweto. Attendance was poor.
Having said this I gather you are all wanting to know what is my opinion, fortunately I will not voice it here but I will say watch this space. I challenge you to stand up, voice your opinion and take action. Coenie took action and started something that has put South African Gays on the international level. Instead of winning lets use this platform and grow it as a nation.
So I ask, who is willing to stand by me and make the changes that you want, let us not stare at the challenge but fight for it. The difference starts with you. So enter, I will be watching.
. And that my dear Rudy, is enough reason why you and people of colour must say more to discuss and engage in such topics. Now did it ever occur to you the REAL reasons why you never won? or even came close to it? its not higher maths, its very basic actually. If you were really truly in a competition that surpassed race, then the voters would have voted for you via sms etc. You did not fulfill their ideals as to what it is to be truly gay and south african in todays context. I assumed you are coloured by saying so. The problem lies much deeper. We have been so brainwashed by society that we believe to be the perfect gay, you must be lightskin, have blue/green eyes, have blond straight or lighter hair and be either buffed or super skinny.. A complex issue that we see in other groups too, Asia is so obsessed with skin lighting products and diets because society dictates what beauty and acceptance is all about. This is what we are fighting. Instead of showcasing acceptance and tolerance, we install the stereotypes and that is what drives gay Black people to suicide, and even worse, to act white in all its shape and form – disowning their own heritage. Bullying is one of the higher causes in America amongst suicide victims facing outing from their peers. It is worrying for me, it is frighting and we need to redress such issues. White people does seem to fear black and coloureds, purely because of what their preconceived ideas dictate to them, they often fail to learn and understand us properly, and when you dont know something you fear it. The racial divide is very big, and unless we address the subtle issues first, then the racial agenda’s, we must never stop voicing our concerns for fear of prejudice or for a drop in popularity ratings amongst our white counterparts. Coenie and his team i believe has and is not doing enough to move past the big questions everyone have been asking, and being silent on the issue is certainly not helpful either. more needs to be done, and it by time that we start this discussion and root out this evil.
. another thing, it is not uncommon for organizers to run and hassle non-white entrants in a competition that are dominated by whites. It normally signals smoke screens and to fill the quota knowing “about” the questions being already being asked by the greater community. Now i am not saying, that this is indeed the case, i am just adding to this debate. Would it not be better instead of “forcing” one entrant of colour to enter, why not go and spread greater awareness in the black, indain and coloured communities about MRGSA as a whole. I still fail to see how all these “epiphanies” that signs forth “we try” but they dont come.. I really dont buy it, especially when we hear of how Coenie practically badgered you to enter.. This does sound rather “quota” filled. Sorry to put it like that Rudy.
. I know for a fact that Coenie did not only ask Rudy to enter – he asked literally hundreds of men of colour – including me. Rudy, Fahraaz Dockrat, Mnqobi and a few others were the only ones who responded. PS ALL the contestants in KZN were black this year by the way and two made it to the finals. Fahraaz had to have an operation and could not join the cruise. PS 2 Rudy came 5th in the SMS competition and won one of the individual prizes.
. At the KZN regionals ALL the contestants were black – two made it to the finals, Fahraaz and Mnqobi.
. You have valid points and i challenge you too stand up and work with me on achieving them. What my statement meant is that if Coenie did not push me i would have chickened out in entering. I have one Question and this applies to me as well, why should we go and campaign for people to enter, ‘lick people” to enter, the competition is widely advertised. If you find out about it and you want to enter go for it. If you do not know about it then maybe you need to jack up and read the press more. The problem is we always want things to come to us an we never go out and grab it. Take action.
. You all go on about how its so racist that a black person hasnt won and that there are so little black entries. If this is your view point then it must mean that you are not a racist. oh but wait, your viewpoint differentiates between black and white which in turn MAKES YOU A RACIST. I mean if the non white contestants have not said anything about judging being unfair etc, where do you get the nerve to make such allegations? if something was not done fairly the contestants would normally be the first to figure it out and none of them have said anything.
. Hitting it right on the head Fahraaz.
. uhm who said anything of “unfairly” judged, the discussion has been around the lack of inclusiveness and how it must be addressed. PLease show us posters or printed applications that were distributed to local clubs and shebeens in township and coloured communities.. because i can assure you, none was ever posted or delivered to such venues. It is a case of keeping them uninformed to attract a “particular” interest and to keep it that way. You are misconstruing two whole objective of this frak and open discussion, thats all im saying. Keep it relative. The results you seek, you will find – simple logic.
. Ok – who is going to supply the money to have these posters and flyers printed – you?
. [ ] before you start moaning that the competition is not a true representation of the South African gay community demographic, in other words – no black face, you should know that the organisers have been trying relentlessly to attract a much wider spectrum of entrants but given our cultural issues towards homophobia, very few blacks actually enter the competition. Thus making it likely that we will keep seeing white boys winning this competition every year unless more black gay guys show interest on Mr Gay South Africa competition.
Anyway, congratulations to Lance. I am very proud of you brotha and keep the SA flag flying high at the Mr Gay World next year. As for DA, if all their councillors look like this, they might just win my vote ((((wink))).
. obviously a lover of his oppressor.. also some lame excuses regarding “culture” and what “others” have been saying. utter nonsense! habe you ever been in a township and coloured areas? Gays are practically everywhere.. i promise you! i come from there! we are not hiding as some of you may assume. I would like the organisers to visit us in out taverns and townships and see how vibrant and intergrated gays and lesbians really are.. dont speak on a subject you have no knowledge of… if really upsets me when people say silly things when we live there, for years now without any problems.
. Mpo please grow up and stop making a racial issue about the new Mr Gay SA, you just jealous because you want to be like him, not white but sexy and with a personality.
I notice that most of the “bitching” is about support and voting
As far as I know the whole idea is that when you becomes a finalist you need to start your own little add campaign to get votes in – to those “bitching balcks “on here it is called an election campaign or marketing campaign
Then to the organisers of the Mr Gay SA, well done and congratulations to the Winner.
. Winner should resign from pageant or from DA. hame on you (organizers, NOT winner, feel sorry for him)
. Winner should resign from pageant or from DA. hame on you (organizers, NOT winner, feel sorry for him)
. I was at the KZN regionals and ALL the contestants were black – two made it to the finals, Fahraaz and Mnqobi.
. In the spirit of ubuntu and fairness, lets make gay events, pageants and patsy’s truly inclusive. I understand the whole “racial” and political interferences, it must stop from both ends. White people must sit and think of what they are doing, and they must also be considerate of how they go about doing this. Ultimately if your start something GAYs dont keep it Elite, there are many Gay people who identitfy with homosexuality. Likewise with Blacks, be a part of it, force daai wors, even if they try and keep it “white”, and if every effort is made to exclude you, then make some noise – we will listen. Redress is needed in a community that does seem to try and keep it amongst themselves, but stand up and speak out. Go and enter, get your shebeen queens and let them join the patsy.. bring die hele township, and then i would like to see them turn you away. Thats the only way – i just hope the whites dont retract and go to places like “voelkop” and other resorts where the afrikaner and old south africa flags hang in the bars… that clearly is for “members” only, they most certainly dont want us there!
. Please do bring them, I can promise you Mr GSA won’t turn anyone away =- they have not and will not. You can imagine if they ever turned anyone away … Conie is on record many times that more men of colour are needed to enter. When Tshepo Chuenyane won the Gauteng regionals, and Shannon Rex came second in 2010, the white gays said it was “rigged” and “only done for political purposes” – even though Tshepo and Shannon qualified fair and square. It is a question of you will not satisfy everyone always. This year’s black finalists have given testimony that they have been personally invited to participate and qualified – kicking dust in many white guys’ faces. If they enter in droves, I promise then droves will qualify for the finals. The percentage of guys of colour in the total entries, are directly equivalent to the guys of colour who make it to the finals. PS If they were racist, why would we, the finalists of the past still support them? We do because we know they go to great lengths to get guys of colour to enter.
. Mr. Gay South Africa 2011 and Buffalo City councillor Lance Weyer, commented that the report “illustrates how LGBTI rights in South Africa are often rights in name only, as there is seldom effective implementation of those provisions.”
“The saddest fact is that the most vulnerable are the impoverished who do not have the means to protect themselves. These are the people that the government should be protecting. Evidence abounds that the people who are tasked with protecting us, the South African Police, are often the biggest perpetrators of discrimination,” he said.
Weyer revealed that he had recently been involved in reporting a case of police brutality against patrons of a gay bar and had firsthand experience of “barbaric” police officers.
“The prejudice and violence faced by lesbians and transgender men cannot be ignored any longer, and it is time that the Minister of Justice and Minister of Police take real measures to ensure their safety,” he said.
. Press Release 14.2011: MR GAY SOUTH AFRICA AND MR GAY NAMIBIA SPEAK AFTER ATTACK
East London, South Africa 09 December 2011 –
Mr. Gay South Africa 2011, Lance Weyer, a representative councillor of the Buffalo City Municipality, which includes East London, Bisho and King Williams Town, issued a statement relating to the physical attack this week on the first ever Mr Gay Namibia, Wendelinus Hamutenya.
Weyer said: This attack comes only months after the United Nations passed a resolution (proposed by South Africa) expressing grave concern at acts of violence and discrimination, in all regions of the world, committed against individuals because of their sexual orientation and gender identity. It passed with 23 votes in favour, 19 opposed and three abstentions, amid strong criticism of South Africa by some African nations. The fact of the matter is that Africa is not a great place to live in if you are homosexual! South Africa is the only country in Africa where the rights of LGBTI people are fully protected in law. In Namibia, like most African countries, it is a crime to be gay. Sodomy is a crime in Namibia according to the archaic Roman-Dutch common law, which was imposed by the South African apartheid government. Common law is a legal tradition based mainly on precedent court verdicts, while there is no codified sodomy provision in Namibia. Laws that discriminate validate other kinds of discrimination. Laws that require equal protections reinforce the moral imperative of equality. And practically speaking, it is often the case that laws must change before fears about change dissipate.
It must also be noted that in Wendelinuss case he is also a member of the opposition party in Namibia, as I am in South Africa. Political freedom is not common place in Africa; hence it is not entirely impossible that the ruling party could be behind the attack. Their former president and founding father, Sam Nujoma, is an outspoken anti-gay campaigner.
The fight for LGBTI rights in Namibia is far from over, and I firmly believe that it is the responsibility of all of us to stand up for our brothers and sisters that are being persecuted in their homelands in Africa in particular. I would like to see us learn from and appreciate each other beyond sexual orientation, but at this moment in time that is a dream that is far from reality. It is nevertheless a dream that is well worth striving for! Alone we are weak, but together we are strong.
. Why is it that every year the same thing happens? If a white guy wins it is a huge problem and it becomes a racial issue. What is wrong with you people. As a black man, I have no problem with a white guy winning. People are chosen for reasons other than colour. If a white man wins next year again are you going to quote Malema….”You are racist”. Get a life people. It is because of racial crap that this country is F*&cked.
. Can not agree more. There is no reason a black guy can not win.
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