NO FATS, NO FEMS
Having been a seven-year-old soprano-singing, tap dancing little boy, I have always felt a little ‘out’. Needless to say, blending into the background wasn’t my forte. I do, however, excel at being gay. I have been called a moffie, fag and girlie, amongst others, since pre-school so naturally someone making a point of my ‘otherness’ became a great fear of mine.
I’ve come quite a way since then. I came out (for real) and for the first time in my 19 years I found a certain kinship with a group of people; I felt part of a family. The gay community felt like home to me. After all, we share a life experience and a unique understanding of one another’s lives.
I really thought that my endless attempts to fit in had come to an end when I found my gay home and for the most part that was true. That is, until I started dating. It was at this point that I realised I am a bottom (excuse the pun) feeder in the gay community. In other words, I am both fat and fem. (Gasp!)
Admittedly, when I first came out I was only interested in ‘straight acting’ gay guys because flamboyant gay people petrified me (even though I was clearly one myself). I suppose internalised homophobia is to blame for this. In time, as I grew comfortable with myself and once I had tackled this narrow homophobic attitude I came to the realisation that I have nothing in common with most straight men and that juvenile attraction I once had for ‘straight-acting’ guys was downgraded to fleeting lust.
Evidently not everyone undergoes this same thought process. As a result, many of the gay men I have encountered, both online and in clubs, are obsessed with proving their masculinity; either by spending half their waking lives in the gym or by ensuring that their voice sounds like Sean Connery’s. Every time I see a Grindr, MeetMarket or Gaydar profile saying ‘straight acting’ or ‘No Fats, No Fems’ I feel like I’m back in high school being bullied. Quite frankly, if a prospective mate is as shallow and ignorant as to stipulate ‘No Fats, No Fems’ as his only penis preference I would rather die a fat blob with my 17 cats as my only companions than pretend to be something that I am not for a slice of sweet ass.
“Clearly, being gay doesn’t make you more enlightened or tolerant than some homophobe… but, in my view, it should…”
‘Fat and Butch’ or ‘Thin and Fem’ are acceptable, but ‘Fat and Fem’ are the lowest of the low – the ‘untouchables’, so to speak. My dating life and the rest of the FF clan can attest to this fact. Dating has been one disaster after the next (although, this doesn’t make me that unique since gay men in their early 20s are still 13-year-old girls taking a crash course in romantic development). Potential lovers always end up wanting to be my best friend but never my boyfriend.
Is it just my insecurities or is this a reality? I can’t stop being fem so I better get to the gym quick. Or perhaps find that rare and elusive gay chubby chaser. I’m not saying a really sweet but morbidly obese guy is necessarily perfect husband material but I’m only about 10 kg overweight and I feel like something of a eunuch pariah.
Clearly, we gay males idolise and aspire to heteronormative masculinity rather than redefining what it means to be a man. Many gay men seem to be obsessed with having the perfect body but not many seem to be concerned about their character.
I’m forever perplexed by the many gays and old-foggie faggots who insist: “I’m gay but I’m not gay.” What does that mean? Just because you may not be flaming your flames of faggotry or screeching to the world that you like a good penis doesn’t make you superior or ‘less homosexual’. In fact, you’re just as likely to be denied certain freedoms because of your sexual orientation, regardless of your level of masculinity.
My point is not that gay men need to stop being so shallow and start finding fem fatties attractive (I’m not that delusional) but rather that when it comes to masculinity we shouldn’t be as narrow-minded as the straight community. Clearly, being gay doesn’t make you more enlightened or tolerant than some homophobe… but, in my view, it should.
Being gay means you should be a little more hesitant to make others feel like second-class citizens. We are all part of something bigger (no, stop being a size queen) – the fight for equality. A struggle in which people just like you, or who could have been you, have had their freedom snatched from their hands due to an inherent characteristic that they happen to possess.
So maybe a little tolerance for the fat and fem fags or even just a little kindness every now and then won’t deflate your giant arms. This false dichotomy within the gay community of fems vs. butch is so high school. And, really, I’m just looking to graduate.
I really cant relate to your article. All people are different in taste for one another. It clearly seems that you are hitting at my type of person I am (Straight acting, gym and buff guy on roids). No, I am not attracted to fat men and never will be. I work my ass off not to be fat so why do I have to find a fat man attractive as you stipulate in your letter? I don’t find fem and fat guys atractive but I never tell that to their faces. Like i said, you have your way of taste and I do have mine. No person is the same. Sounds to me like you are jealous of the guy that really works hard to look good and some that try to act straight. Call it fake if you want, but it really brings you allot farther in life in general. The straight acting and well toned guy will always get the job before you do. the woman at work always tells me and I am sure that allot of woman at work tells the same thing to many good looking gays that “why do all the hot men have to be gay”? have they ever told you that? No, cause you don’t do anything about your fat and fem acting. You don’t get to say that I should start liking fat men! I like a healthy attractive man and I deserve that. So does my husband….
Lol, given that you can barely spell and string together sentences I seriously doubt you’ll be first in line for that job – no matter how attractive you think you are. Also, you completely missed the point of the article, but then again it’s not clear if you’re able to read. Maybe a little less time in the gym and a little more with the books. WORLD PEACE! *wink*
Miskien moet jy my `n les in spelling en “grammer” leer… O nee wag, ek kan nie. Gym sessie vanaand. Jammer! Sien jy het darem verstaan wat ek ges het. Neem aan jy is `n onderwyser wat mense spel foute uitwys. WORLD PEACE! “wink”
O, and there is another spelling mistake Pierre before you try and point it out.
I’d take a fat or a fem over this Derek douche any day.
Derek, at no point in this article is Dylan telling you to “start liking fat men” as you put it. You seem personally offended that he exposes one of the core prejudices present in the gay community. Instead of defensively justifying a superficial standpoint as a mere matter of “taste” – as many homo/hetero people justify their racism when asked why they don’t date outside their race – perhaps take the article for its purpose: to get folks to reflect on themselves and how they treat others. In the LGBTI community we’re all about labels – fem, butch, top, bottom, boi, twink etc – we often are so fixated on these that we forget to treat each other as human beings. Dylan is no way saying you (or any other person) do not deserve “a healthy attractive man”, but he is pointing out that gays of all shapes and sizes don’t deserve to be shunned or ostracised because they don’t “make the grade” We all get wrinkled and shrivel to dirt in the end. We do ourselves an injustice by excluding people from our life based purely on superficial assumptions.
Gaby, I did miss the point. You are right after reading the article again.
well said. the shallow in this community of ours tends to have the amazing gift of determining everything they should know about a person from a profile. i am amazed as to how many of the so-called muscle men from this site that i see at the mall and believe you me, they are far from muscled!! or good looking for that matter. dumb, yes!! race is another thing that crops up in these sites. again, i am amazed as to how many south africans ‘do not cross the colour line’ and then try to justify it by personal choice. they then go on to be interested in hispanics, latinos and even arabs!!
You are a perfect example of what Dylan is talking about.
I think Derek might be a chap I ‘phoned based on a first contact on Silver Daddies web site.(“Actuary in training” from CT Northern Subs, with a nude pic of his rather shapeles butt?)
Whether or not: this guy proceeded to inteview/interrogate me as if he were doing me a favour by even considering whether I might be good enough for him to give the time of day to. In the end I turned him down because he was an a**hole, not because he was of an age/weight etc that might appeal on a movie screen (which is, after all one dimensional).
I am fat, 58 yrs old, etc. …. and that does not determine whether or not i am a good guy.
Incidentally; I have a bf of 6 months who loves me, he happens to be 27 and has movie star looks, but the important thing is that he is a wonderful person who loves me.
Unfortunately, our Gay community is as shallow and superficial as the rest of society. chased looks rather than real virtue.
I wanted to make a negative comment about this opinion piece, but after reading “Derek Hougaardt” ‘s response below I’ve decided against it. “Derek”, did you read a different version than me? Dylan did not say “straight acting” fags must find fem fat guys attractive, merely that they must be more tolerent and less discrimatory. You are a prime example of the kind of mentality talked about in the piece
I totally agree with this article. When I came out I thought that I would find a safe and welcoming place within the gay community. Instead I found the most shallow and judgemental people I have ever met.
How can we expect straight people across the globe to accept gay people when we as a gay community can’t even accept the differences within each other?
so true,..way so true!
well well,..Mr Derek,..thanks so much for keeping the perception of all buff men on the median that we are all the same ilk! lol what grabage!,..but then again i am not shocked,.. yur need tobe validated by society,your narcisisim ,..i hope makes you happy!
i have some freinds like you and atimes i cringe at what they say,but realy scrape through it all and atimes its that kid at 5-10 with the “ugly duckling syndrome” and now he is all tonned and built the rest of the world has to acknowledge it. shame we do not!
and before you start hitting on me for hating on you,..i am lucky i have liberated my self from that parade and narcisism many gym bunnys have and i hav learnt to live. the six pack still intact,still bigger than many roid boys and a lot happier.
And by the way this is form a guy that was skinny ,then over weight and now 87 kgs of muscle. and what i have learnt is people spoke to me then or rather acknowledge me then ,than they do now,…..or i just grew out of the silly pick line “you must gym 6 days a week”!
An insightful piece of writing that I think we can learn from as a community. After years of rejection (internal and external), we do come out wanting affirmation. And perhaps the shallow looking for a straight-acting guy to love us (or at least sleep with us) affirms that deep desire to be accepted by a straight-dominated world – we are acceptable by default, or so we hope.
I really enjoyed reading this… I hope you find what you are looking for.
Brilliant article! I think it articulates what a lot of young gay men are thinking. The comment on stunted romantic development is spot on! I think it is too often a product of our reality growing up and isolating ourselves out of fear.
I am 29, and getting more and more hopeful though…not sure what others’ experience is, but I am finding that guys over-30 yo (tend to) have dealt with many of these issues and are more secure with their masculinity (whichever form that happens to take). So it’s my new dating pool *wink* Another observation – having dated a couple of guys who came out in their mid-to-late twenties, I often find that they are more well-adjusted in dating/relationships. My working theory is better socialisation as teenage boys…not sure if this is an obvious or controversial observation. Anybody have an opinion on that?
I’m with Derek on this one!!
I find it even more shocking that we can find fault with one another e.g Mr. Gay World – someone wrote that the competion was good pity about the fucking drag queens – they too are in the same boat as fat and fem when it comes to judgementalism and yet GAYS forget that the fat fems and Drag queen were in the forefront of the struggle for gay rights now that we are accepted a little more than before we see no need for the other members of the gay community – suddenly we have been put into catergories – Shame even those Muscle Mary’s are Gay whether they try to hide it or not and remember these so called very butch numbers are first to be Nandos chickens in bed. lol
I think it is important to realize that the author is also looking for straight acting so, basically everybody likes normal men- that is why we are gay. Why does the author not start by looking up guys like himself We never signed up to meet men in dresses. Secondly, gay society has never been a really warm place to me and I doubt that will change soon.
Mate, YOU never signed up to meet men in dresses. Possibly the author feels the same and frankly, but please dont speak for the whole gay community when we are so diverse that we all have millions of varied tastes and opionions. You comments are bigotted and unkind. Another thing what is this “normal men” thing. I just happen to be a man – what makes the author less normal than you. I say fcuk straight society – they need to start acting like us. Let go of this thing of straight acting – straight people just happen to act like me
Did you read the article?
Wow, the gay community are drama queens. As a gay man who came out the closet at the age of 32, I met my husband same year and we have been together 15 years ( 2 months married – brilliant)
I never knew gay guys and still only have a few gay friends. My friends are overwelmingl;y straight – not because I am trying to be straight but because I judge a person by their character rather than their sexuality, size , age etc… Also my straight friends are generally less drama. I dont do drama. We have friend in their teens and friends in their 60’s, we have society friends and bar buddies.Why do you guys keep on trying to put people in these boxes? My hubby and I are approaching our 50’s quickly – Im in the shape I was in high school (having been a gymnast and rugby player I am lucky that I stay in shape with almost no exersice) but he has put on some weight yet in my eyes he is unchanged since the day we met. I see the gentle giant of a man with the most beutiful eyes and kindness like no other. My God people , the fact is we have wrinkles in places we didnt know we had places. You initially fcuk and enjoy a nice bod sure , but we all age and sag. The reason there are so many lonely gay guys out there is simple – you dont look at the soul of the person. My hat off to the writer of this article and I hope you find someone that deserves you.
AGREED, well said, you capture it all
Um, wow. Dylan, I have no idea what reality TV show you were on, but you’ve just scored another fan.
You’re not the first person to call bullshit on the whole ‘straight-acting’ thing, but we need to keep talking until the no fats, no fems brigade snaps out of this weird musclemania and realises the treadmill they’re on is just a giant hamster wheel in a cage made by straight people.
Also, how much does Mamba’s comment section suck?
One other thing! Really poor choice of pic, Mamba eds. This aint a piece about men’s health.
welcome to being a podgy non ideal male . i am straight and its exactly the same man…
@ Robin – you know they say ”you need a big hammer for a big nail” *wink*
absolutey well said, and well put. have to agree with u 200%. a standing ovation u desreve.
WoW!! I just read everybody’s comments…. We r very vicious towards each other. Man do these ‘fems vs. masc guys’ topics stike a lot of nerves or what. I for one hate being labelled ‘straight acting’. Unlike Derek down there I don’t pretend. Us gays r a truely a fucked up buch! We r suppose to be celebrating our differences. I like how Dylan pointed out the whole stunnted growth thing its so true. Most of us only started really dating (cruising doesn’t count) after high school. Straight people can start dating from the beginning of school. That’s a lot of time to learn n grow (no matter immature a person can be) on the dating plain. Even straight guys that start dating in varsity may have a better advantage through observing other’s. When do we get a chance of observation? we usually start from skratch. Sucks I can be true
Im more of a fittness freak/ health orientaited kind of guy n Gernally date guys who care about thier health. U can be fat or skinny but if a guy doesn’t put stock in his health than we won’t be dating for long. See thats a lifestyle choice. Being gay isn’t nor are ur attractions. Truely find what ur into before writing down bullshit on ur profiles. N for the love of all things Holy started treating each other well.
well written. bravo!!
the next time you meet or chat with one of those who are not into fatties or fems, ask for a school pic. i am sure you will get a good idea as to why they behave like they do now. i am not saying they would have been fat and fem at school, but a pic does indeed paint a thousand words!!
Wow…that is one article that will change peoples minds…writting from experience
Well said !
I’m sorry bubba, but when did someone wailing about being fat and feminine in an article become even remotely in the same league as women’s rights and apartheid?! Sheesh talk about exaggerating!! Seriously dude, that is very dramatic and stretching things enormously. Fact is, you can gym and act your gender – you can’t change being a woman or of another race. What you’re saying is an insult to the apartheid struggle and female liberation to equate someone being fat an feminine with that. While you’re at it cut the pop psychology hogwash about internalised homophobia and grow a brain.
Thanks for spectacularly missing the point.
Great comeback… *eyeroll*
You go boy! I feel the same about it all, Tk. We have the right to like whom we want to… and I think I like you already!
I like U 2 BA *wink* hehehe!…
Swiss Boer- you still need to find yourself.
I’m 35 good looking slim, But…but.. I only Like Older and fate guys…so I don’t have a any problem to find a guys…for anything. I’m 101% happy that what i like….
Great posting…..lees even lekkerder as die oorspronklike!
@ Swiss Boer: Lekker posting! Lees even lekkerder as die oorspronklike artikel….lol
Here Here… I’m just looking to graduate too Sad that despite the eclecticism of our homosexual culture we still get so caught up in the simplicity of lifes needs and lusts in such a basic way
No offense meant, boys! Seems I made myself guilty of categorizing too 🙁
Just trying to say – look outside the world…you may be surprised at what you find.
lang storie, maar wat ook al jy nou eintlik wou se, jy klink maar net soos nog ‘n pretentious doos. sorry.
Sorry, Dylan, I don’t like fat or effeminate men. I like them in shape and good looking, and masculine. If you don’t fit that description and you are angry because I won’t give you a sympathy fuck, that is your problem, not mine. Maybe YOU are the one who should do some growing up instead of styling yourself as a freak and then whining when the boys you like won’t fuck you.
WTF – You are a nasty piece of work. You certainly are not the type of guy I would want to be involved with. Dylan, I see you point about some gay guys.Make sure you never get involved with someone soulless like WTF
WOW! WTF you sound like a real jerk!
A bit of consideration and understanding goes a long way. Tolerance and acceptance was never easy, and it seems that these two things are harder in the gay community who now seemingly forgets its own past.
Dylan, while you at it – also include or write about: WHITES ONLY. or NO BLACKS or ASIANS.
For a country who prides itself on its liberation struggle where we were once outlawed under apartheid it sure boggles my mind as to why we have so many divisions among us and racial prejudices within us.
The majority of Black people that you talk so rudely of actually fought for your rights in South Africa, and the Fat and Fems that you have issues with – was the front runners at Stonewall who started the Gay Rights Movement. So think carefully before you write or say something stupid like Jessica or Tshidi.
Was that really neccessary? and what do you mean “styling himself like a freak”? its called hair and make up! The only things freaky here are your ignorance, intolerance and false sense of superiority…
A person can be nice and polite one, twice… but then the whole thing gets old. Agree with WTF. Those guys who wrote about the soulless and jerk response were never caught in the situation. Dont knock it till you try it… Im not a guy. Im a feminine lesbian whos very attractive and just so plain damn tired of ugly lesbians. Four times my size, in their mid 60s on crutches, and 2mX2m Boer lasses who make Picassos cubism blush and Venus Williams look like a baby telling me, and I quote, I need to be accepted for what I am. But mostly for what I am not!. If I dont sleep with her, I am a horrid monster who cant accept other peoples diversity… The arrogance is astounding.
Firs of all there are thousands out there who would die to be with you, so keep your radars up *smiley*. Second what is over weight, what is fit and what is masculine? You are so right, but just be your self and the man of your life will come along.
Thanks John – I have been blessed and I wish the same for you and all those awesone gay guys out there (Just not WTF above)
Well said
I have just come out to my parents and to my friends-at 31. After years of acting like someone I was not, I am on this slow path to acceptance. Dylan, I agree with your statement that we (gay people) should be more tolerant of others and not make others feel like second class citizens. I was just reading through some blogs today and I am so sad to see how superficial the requests are; and all revolving around sex! Unfortunately this is the impression that heterosexual get of gay people and the stereotyping begins. It is so sad that the well-balanced gay people are often afraid to show themselves. We really lack good role models in society-gay professionals who have accomplished and are leading monogamous spiritually satisfying lives. I am currently reading the book “The Velvet Rage” by Alan Downs. Highly recommended. In a nutshell, the author states that it is not about belonging to straight society or even gay society. It is about being yourself and being true to yourself.
Well done Dylan, this was trully a well written article and I was delighted to read it and to also recognise my own prejudice I project onto a certain ‘kind’ of gay in my daily interaction, I appreciate your eloquent statement and I will do my best to be more aware of my own judgments on my peers.
Ewww! Fat AND Fem! The 2 most gross traits to be found anywhere in the gay world! I like to bully them fags (Fat hags). I bully them to help them of course. I can’t believe you are proud of being in your wobbly skin. Gross. Just get to a gym and act like a man!
I really agree with this article in the sense that it is not easy for the gay man to be accepted by the world out there. It makes the whole situation worse when your fellow gay people do not accept you for being fem. I dress up straight and never carry around a hand bag or wear make up, but I still look fem not because it is my fault to look fem. I was born that way and I’ve tried to act straight and it pains me to realize that most of the guys on the dating websites will not accept you based on your fem looks. I think we need to be more tolerant towards our fellow gay fem guys…I think the fem guys are looked down more than the fat guys. It is almost as good as saying you chose to gay rather than you were born that way…Just try to put yourself in the shoes of the fem guys that have tried for years to act straight and it just hasn’t worked out for them…I think we all can do something about our weight issues and if you laugh at me because of my weight issues, I can go to gym or change my eating habits, but being fem is very different because I have been both fat before and I worked on my weight issues but I have been fem from the age of 4 years and today I am 37 years old and it just doesn’t seem to go away with a magic pill or gym work outs…
Shame dude! It really sounds like you have been in pain regarding this issue. Be yourself and I think most people will respect that. This article was more about people wanting straight acting buffed stereotypes, but they themselves are fat and fem. You, on the other hand, seem like a great guy!
excellent article! masculinity (or lack of masculinity ofcourse) should not be a concern in the homosexual community.
Im stuck in that same soup and on top of it all im black most gays are just rascist it crazy.
Hmmnnn…. Note taken,but must I now change my lifelong attraction to (Butch) inshape men with beards? Guys who can and want to join me on long motorbike rides,who want to go fishing on weekends? It’s one thing to be PC…but to demand that I now like you,view you as a sexual partner and to fall hopelessly in love with you? Aikhona……rather label me as a throwback then…. A person CANNOT change what he finds attractive… If we could,then we’d all be straight – cos face it,being gay aint allways moonshine and roses…